Proposal One- Determining Activity

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Mir
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Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Mir »

This is the start of a series of proposals for the World of Heroes forum. Please take your time and read over everything and voice any thoughts, concerns, or complaints. Once we have discussed the situation, there will be a vote. Thank you, I appreciate that.

Proposal One- Determining Activity

What makes an active RPer active? There must be some kind of criteria, some kind of idea on the level of activity. I know that my definition and Cadden’s definition are quite different for example. Many of you have had the (dis)pleasure of hearing us debate who’s definition has more merit. Just because one particular RPer is WoH Coordinator however, their opinion should not determine the definition of something for the WoH as a whole. This proposal is in regards to determining activity and what to do with lists once someone has become inactive.

The first thing we need to do is determine activity. To me, this means posting regularly, at least once a week. To you, it may be different. I personally don’t understand everything that happened in regards to lists recently. But, as Cadden pointed out to me, just because I didn’t see a problem, it didn’t mean that there wasn’t a problem. Since sometimes people go inactive for long periods of time, they sometimes have characters that others, who are active, wish to utilize. So we need to determine what is an acceptable level of activity.

I understand that many people have obligations to real life. I would never, ever say that one should ignore real life issues in order to ensure posting on this website. That’s just wrong. So I want to put a broad scope of time into play. However, I also understand that multiple members are involved in both the MBT and the WoH. There are only two that I can think of right now that are solely WoH. To me, if you can make a lot of posts in the MBT, but you can not do so in the WoH, then you are not active in the WoH and something must be done about your lists, especially if there are others asking about people who are on your list.

I’m going to use the requirements for Voting in Exodus as my starting point:
Voting Requirements Thread wrote: You must have made at least five posts IC or OOC in the last two months (not including your post on this thread).
OOC posting doesn’t concern the WoH. That is to say, posting a lot on the Gen OOC has nothing to do with posting in WoH. However, it does stand to reason that OOC posting in the RP OOC when it comes to a WoH thread does. First change is that the OOC posting must be RP OOC and WoH related.

Next, two months is easy to do when it comes to Gen OOC posting and even RP OOC posting. I would leave it as it is, because I’m including WoH Related RP OOC posts in the 5 count, but in favor of helping those who do not have large amounts of time in general, I shall expand the length of time from two months to six months. Six months is a decent amount of time, half a year. This is the proposal for the rule:
Activity Rule wrote: A WoH RPer is determined to be active, if that RPer has made at least 5 posts IC or WoH Related RP OOC in the last 6 months
I feel as though this does not hinder anyone and only hurts if you are truly inactive. Also, it goes without saying that if someone steps forward with a legitimate reason as to why they are going to be away, then they do not become inactive. If there is, for example, a death in the family and in the process of getting a fellow family member back on their feet, you have to step away from Exodus for some time, that will never be held against you, provided you inform the community of what is happening. This covers things like military deployments as I know that at least four members of the WoH Community actively serve in the US Armed Forces.

Again, this is only a proposal. Feel free to voice your concerns and thoughts as we work towards a cohesive rule.

There will be one week's worth of time allotted for debate and discussion. If there are no objections, then I will edit the rules to allow for that particular change and that only to go through. If there are objections, and another proposal is formed, there will be a vote.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Ghost »

One of the biggest problems that people tend to think is that specific timeframe allows them to have the ability to place a hold on things or reserve characters or creations.

*shrugs*

But I'm no longer going to speak my mind about it because it is obvious that no matter what I say I believe is appropriate for activity, others disagree because of "legacy" or "founder" status.

I mean I understand there are circumstances which I have posted numerous times, and I really do not want to continue to type it every time.

I believe there should be tighter limit when it comes to WoH, not saying every time someone violates activity rules they lose it all but perhaps stipulations are placed and actually -enforced-.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Mir »

Well, it's my goal to actively enforce all of these proposals, whatever the outcome is. However, I heavily want everyone's input and everyone's thoughts because then if/when/whatever people break the rules set forward, they can't complain.

What stipulations do you think would be fair?
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Ghost »

Ok, let me ask you this, do you think it would be fair if I remained active in the OOC forums on a consistent basis but never bothered to utilize the time to write something up for the stories which you and others are involved in and patiently waiting for me on?

I mean, let's just use that for example.

Or perhaps posting once a month just to satisify the level of activity in order to keep what I have to either.

Reasons:

A. Prevent specific users from getting access to material. I.E: Characters, Companies, So forth.
B. Because I feel maybe someday I'll have more time, maybe.
C. Because I just can't accept the fact, I don't have the time and just need to understand I'm not part of the IC community, but the OOC community.
D. Because I've been here from the start, it gives me the alienated right to just be abusive to the rules as I see fit cause no one will have the brass to stop me.
E. Because I post when I want, disappear just long enough to be a few days shy of the -inactive- mark and then come back again.

I really can't say what I think should happen. It would possibly be considered too harsh and it's bad enough I have a distaste in my mouth right now.

I think 1st time, warning, 2nd, moderator warning, 3rd, straight up revocation.

*shrugs* By that time according to the "rules" which are to be "enforced" it'd be 18 months.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Mir »

Following a warning, mod warning, and revocation situation, I'd reduce the amount of time from 6 months to something more like 3. So 9 months total.

I understand your concerns, particularly the coming back a few days shy and posting. The problem is that whatever rules and stipulations get put into place, there will be some loop holes and some way of abusing it. There's no way to make it iron clad, unless it falls to an individual person or a small group to make the decisions and then claims of abuse of power can come into play.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Ghost »

There are ways to close the loop holes.

Give me a specific situation and I can tell you how to close it.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Mir »

Yeah but that's the problem. We have to make rules that can be applied to as many situations as possible.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Cadden »

I can't help but notice that that list doesn't include something like: "I don't have the motivation or inspiration to write." That happened to me for a bit, in an overall scenario. Should we punish someone 'cause their creative pool's run dry for the season?

"Oh, look, you haven't been writing for a couple months. What's that? You haven't been 'feeling it?' Oh, too bad. Sucks to be you. Say buh-bye to your claims list! Have a nice day, and all that."

... Can't really see that going over well.

Me, I've just started trying to get myself back into the mix. It'll be a slow integration process, to be sure, but still. It doesn't really change the fact that my creativity got shot the hell. Should I be punished for that? If so... see ya, time for a new community. One that doesn't punish people 'cause they don't have motivation and inspiration to post.

Would people intentionally abuse the system? Perhaps, perhaps not. Not something you could really make a call on, tbh. Even if you had your PhD in Psychology, I doubt you'd be able to make that call with any level of certainty. What is certain is that people have their reasons, and it's their call to make if they want those reasons to go public. Cazzik's been busy. Should we penalize him 'cause he puts RL priorities over the board? I've had an overall issue with my creativity (something that's coming back, thankfully). Halc has had his recent family issues. If he didn't publicly declare that, and four months later he feels he's ready to return, should he be penalized?

I think these new conditions are fine. They're fair for those that don't want to talk about what's going on in their lives, and lenient for those that do. Really, I don't see the major issue here. I'm an infrequent poster and I'm agreeing to these!
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Foxx »

The timeframe seems about right to me. I think it makes sense. At most it asks for almost a post a month, and that doesn't even need to be an IC post, it could be a post on an RP OOC thread that's related to WoH. As long as it's encouraged that the posts should be IC and not in the RP OOC section, then I'm in favor of this plan.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Mir »

Definitely agree with your last sentence.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Ghost »

Foxx wrote:The timeframe seems about right to me. I think it makes sense. At most it asks for almost a post a month, and that doesn't even need to be an IC post, it could be a post on an RP OOC thread that's related to WoH. As long as it's encouraged that the posts should be IC and not in the RP OOC section, then I'm in favor of this plan.
Right but really just no explanation at all as to what the problem is or if you're in a "funk".

Bleh. :raisedbrow: It's cool. I was just saying.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Foxx »

I'm confused as to what you mean. I saw in Mir's third to last paragraph in the original post that he said that should people provide legitimate reasons that they would not be declared inactive. I'm not sure I get what you're saying :D
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Nichalus »

Me, I've just started trying to get myself back into the mix. It'll be a slow integration process, to be sure, but still. It doesn't really change the fact that my creativity got shot the hell. Should I be punished for that? If so... see ya, time for a new community. One that doesn't punish people 'cause they don't have motivation and inspiration to post.
My God, that pretty much is a 'great' question that some people need to ask themselves. Well stated Cadd. *golf clap* :mrgreen:
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Ghost »

I never said people should be punished for their inability to have creativity and let's be honest, I have been there once or twice. I also have been supportive to Cadden in his time of uh, whatever you want to call it and been supportive.

My only statement and case is when people just outright defy the rules and just do whatever they want and disrespect other people in general by hindering them from proceeding with their own stories in which they depend on the individual to proceed forward.

Get the picture?

There are plenty of individuals who violate this both in MBT and WoH, Should we allow this? No.

I think we should set an example. I believe we should say, "Hey, we aren't going to tolerate this because it isn't right for us to be set on the back burner for you to do whatever you want and disregard my stories so you can play..uh SWTOR and BS in OOC." Or whatever, that's a bad example.

Hopefully, you get my point.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Vox »

Ghost wrote:I never said people should be punished for their inability to have creativity and let's be honest, I have been there once or twice. I also have been supportive to Cadden in his time of uh, whatever you want to call it and been supportive.

My only statement and case is when people just outright defy the rules and just do whatever they want and disrespect other people in general by hindering them from proceeding with their own stories in which they depend on the individual to proceed forward.

Get the picture?

There are plenty of individuals who violate this both in MBT and WoH, Should we allow this? No.
No offense here but it sounds more to me like you're saying if someone doesn't go along with your timeline on something your taking their character from them. That's basically making a character akin to a rental car am I not right? Some people find their inspiration by bullshitting with friends. Me? Normally involves a drunken night and...well...I'll leave it at that. Placing a time limit on someone posting if they aren't feeling it is pretty messed up in my opinion.

As for military deployments in response to Cadden's post. Navy deployments range from 4 months to 15 months (depends). Army/Marine deployments are normally 18 months. Air Force? They deploy? :lol:
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Nichalus »

I think we should set an example. I believe we should say, "Hey, we aren't going to tolerate this because it isn't right for us to be set on the back burner for you to do whatever you want and disregard my stories so you can play..uh SWTOR and BS in OOC." Or whatever, that's a bad example.
For a guy that 'doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeves', you must be wearing a sleeveless shirt.

And your right, it's a bad example, because your reference in the above quote is obvious...at least to me.

Listen Ghost, EVERYONE gets Creativity Burnout, every now and then. You need to learn to be more tolerant to other members whom may experience it from time to time, or not have your longevity to be able to hold onto it. If you didn't expect some members to NOT fall a bit by the wayside when SWTOR came out, then I was wrong about you and your ability to foresee things.

As I said on the other thread, there are ways around continuing a story if a member suddenly falls to the wayside for whatever reason. The only reason that a thread would be completely stopped would be if the missing writer was the creator of the story, and the rest of the group were along for the ride. If that is the case, then I shouldn't matter.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Ghost »

Nichalus wrote:
I think we should set an example. I believe we should say, "Hey, we aren't going to tolerate this because it isn't right for us to be set on the back burner for you to do whatever you want and disregard my stories so you can play..uh SWTOR and BS in OOC." Or whatever, that's a bad example.
For a guy that 'doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeves', you must be wearing a sleeveless shirt.

And your right, it's a bad example, because your reference in the above quote is obvious...at least to me.

Listen Ghost, EVERYONE gets Creativity Burnout, every now and then. You need to learn to be more tolerant to other members whom may experience it from time to time, or not have your longevity to be able to hold onto it. If you didn't expect some members to NOT fall a bit by the wayside when SWTOR came out, then I was wrong about you and your ability to foresee things.

As I said on the other thread, there are ways around continuing a story if a member suddenly falls to the wayside for whatever reason. The only reason that a thread would be completely stopped would be if the missing writer was the creator of the story, and the rest of the group were along for the ride. If that is the case, then I shouldn't matter.
Now, wait a second.

I never once said for a moment that SWTOR was a reason for anything, in all fairness.

I understand people get creativity burnout, and I knew when SWTOR came out, it'd be like when WoW came out or some other facsinating MMORPG which we can all to some degree related to or I dunno, get sucked into.

Now, I am just trying to say there are people who have in the past and perhaps not presently abused the activity rules and utilized them in such a manner to keep specific characters, organizations and so forth in order to better facilitate their stories whenever they got around to it?

Does that sound better?

Oiy, I'm not being on the defensive. I don't have a damn reason to be at all.

I believe there were people who abused rules, got away with it. That's it.

I wanted to make that statement. No subliminal messages, no beating around the bush. There it is. Black and white.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Ghost »

If someone got a damn creativity burnout like Cadden, it's different.

That is completely different and this isn't talking about him. Nor was this about him.

For the love of god, this isn't about one specific individual. This isn't about creativity, it's about blatant ignorance and sheer abuse of the rules which has been noted before. That's all.

FFS people.

If someone lacks creativity or has writers block, let me know. I have a nice size hammer which I'm sure can help.
Last edited by Ghost on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by RCCrow »

I'm cool with the current proposal. I think that it only hurts those who really go inactive but don't provide reasons for it. I mean, even with reasons, sometimes it can get pretty bad though. I'm not trying to point out anyone, but there are people who have lists who haven't posted in well over a year.
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Cadden »

Hey now! Just because I use myself as an example, doesn't mean I want this to be about me! :mad1:
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Re: Proposal One- Determining Activity

Post by Mir »

Ghost has informed me that his proposal was not really a proposal. As such there were no other proposals towards a different rule, and so I'm editing the rules accordingly.
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