Light saber Crystals

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Light saber Crystals

Post by Shaggy » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:46 pm

Don't know if anyone has heard but they have changed canon again in the new book "Asoka."

Jedi have blue and green crystals from planets like Illum and Sith would steal those crystals from Jedi and corrupt them. These crystals are referred to as "bleeding crystals" and have been turned red. Now Jedi can redeem those crystals back to the light side but then the crystals would turn white or possibly another unique color.


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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Mir » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:51 am

White like Jag, Shaggy, and Nich's hair?

I don't really care. We're bound to break away from that canon anyway. But as it is for in universe stuff, meh. I liked the older way.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Archangel » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:12 am

Disney should adopt a new slogan.

The New Star Wars Canon: Making Non-Science Even More Unsciency!

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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Vox » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:02 am

Last time I checked Star Wars lore and "scientific explanation" is more pin ideas to a wall, start drinking and then throw darts at them and that's how you decide.

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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Pryde » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:32 am

Pablo Hidalgo said numerous times in relation to lightsaber crystals they were going with what Lucas had. I don't know if this new shift in canon is entirely Disney's fault.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Cadden » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:05 am

This seems a bit too "ugh." Even by GL's standard. I would think that it's more akin to, "What he had was such and such, and we just filled in the gaps." The corruption bit is okay and manageable, for me, and I could see the original crystals bit being his doing, but the rest? Maybe not so much.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Mir » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:30 am

I just want to be able to have a Corusca Gem and have a Corusca gem lightsaber. And a Silver blade. Because Corran Horn.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Pryde » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:22 am

The description of kyber crystals on Wook is still pretty much the same with the addition of redeeming crystals thing.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Jagtai » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:42 pm

BS.

That's what I think about it.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Halomek » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:14 pm

I've got to admit, I like the term "bleeding crystals", but I'm not too very fond of the idea of the Force having colors assigned to it.

Granted, aside from Sith tradition, there wasn't a whole lot in Legends about why Darksiders always used red. It was a bit silly and didn't hold up well to scrutiny, but I'll take that over the corruption idea.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Archangel » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:07 am

At least "different crystals diffracted the light of 'light' sabers differently, causing different colors" sounds like science.

"Bleeding crystals" sounds like it belongs next to "healing crystals" and "crystal balls." Force-sensitive rock-species notwithstanding, the idea that translucent rocks somehow have intrinsic color-changing morality that is unaffected if a good person puts them in a metal stick, but can be "corrupted" by a bad person putting them in a metal stick and then "uncorrupted" again by a different good person putting them in a metal stick is pretty kooky, even for Star Wars.

Maybe they're like mood-rings.

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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Cadden » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:37 am

Mood-sabers.

Glad I'm not writing a Jedi. Blasters are much simpler.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Halomek » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:02 am

All red blaster bolts are clearly signs that they've been corrupted.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Cadden » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:55 am

Does this mean, then, that Jango and Boba were both good and pure, because they wore blue and green armor, and the clones were once corrupted and were purified because their armor was white (as with Stormtroopers)? And that Cadden is corrupted because his armor is red? Is his armor bleeding?

I'm going to regret asking about Cadden. :oldrazz:
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Shaggy » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:22 pm

I like the term bleeding crystals and how the Sith would corrupt the naturally occurring crystals that are attuned to the light side of the force. I also didn't mind the Sith making artificial crystals. The color association (red) could be that they took on a color that would inspire fear or hatred. If you look at our own society, when he think of someone being angry or evil, we move into the red color scheme. ( :mad1: :evil: )

Now, not know full Sith reasoning on why they chose that color, which could be as simple as its contrast to Jedi, could just be that when they broke the crystals free of their light side bonds (bleeding) they just turn red/crimson. They just could be a simple answer of why they are red. The problem occurs with finding the amount of crystals when the Sith were in power during the Old Republic/Sith wars. Also, how much time does it take to make the crystal "bleed" and can that be made quicker by how powerful the Sith is? Just thoughts.

Now redeeming the crystal and having it turn white/silver is cool also.

I guess I am weird that I don't mind having something different from the canon we grew up with as long as it is explained correctly. This might be something else that they bring in for the movies or more books. So to instantly say it's stupid or whatever is a quick judgement on a possible great story line just because it differs from what we grew up on. Also, the explanation that is given is, more than likely, a quick explanation. I might go really deep into Sith v Jedi psychology.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Pryde » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:07 pm

I don't mind the idea of the crystals having no inherent color at first and only changing in color to reflect the Jedi who is attuning to it. Corrupting and redeeming crystals seems pretty on par with Star Wars to me, also. We are talking about sci-fantasy here, a few fantastical elements like "bleeding crystals" will probably fit the world a bit better than midichlorians ever did.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Mir » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:27 pm

Cadden wrote:And that Cadden is corrupted because his armor is red? Is his armor bleeding?

I'm going to regret asking about Cadden. :oldrazz:
I don't think anyone cares. :D
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Mir » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:29 pm

Shaggy wrote:If you look at our own society, when he think of someone being angry or evil, we move into the red color scheme. ( :mad1: :evil: )
Arizona Cardinals are evil. It's true. It's damn true.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Shaggy » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:36 pm

Caw caw dude. Caw caw :mrgreen:
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Mir » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:55 pm

I'll take this as a win since I can't get you to acknowledge you wrote in Bruce Arians for President.

Caw caw.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Shaggy » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:58 pm

Stay in topic you goober. Back to :lightsaber:
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Mir » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:09 pm

Fine.

There's a part of me that likes this aspect about the lightsaber crystals.

Obi-Wan: [returning Anakin's lightsaber] This weapon is your life.

"The heart of the lightsaber, the crystal is."
―Grand Master Yoda[src]

"The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force. The Force is the blade of the heart. All are intertwined: the crystal, the blade, the Jedi. You are one."
―Luminara Unduli, during Barriss Offee's lightsaber construction ceremony on Ilum


Admittedly the last quote is no longer canon, but it's very important. The Force/Jedi/Sith are, in essence, Star Wars' version of religion. The old fella who reminded you of Nich with how slowly and creakily he moved in the beginning of Force Awakens belongs to the Church of the Force after all. So look at it from a religious angle. All people who believe in a particular religion had totems, items that help them channel their beliefs. For a Christian, it could be a Bible or a crucifix. For a Catholic, it might also include a Rosary or a small Scapular. For a Jew, it might be the Torah or the Talmud. And so on and so forth. In the mind/heart of the person, this helps them channel their beliefs. It is an extension of their faith and thus an extension of themselves.

If we think of the lightsaber as an extension of the Jedi's faith, and an extension of themselves, it's not that difficult to conceive that the heart of the lightsaber, the crystal, could be so swayed or changed by that belief. The Bible isn't anything special, when you think about it. Physically, it's simply paper with words on it, binding and a front and back cover. In the same way, the blue and green crystals are just crystals. Its the belief and conviction that the Jedi puts into it that makes it so special, so powerful. Not just the current/plasma/science stuff. When you take convictions and warp them, viewing them through the lens of hate or anger, suffering or pride, it alters things. The belief itself is the same, but how we use it changes. We've seen people use religious texts as the means to preach hate and violence. But this is a science fiction realm, so we can do things differently here, and so the crystal physically changes.

The lightsaber is the life of a Jedi. The crystal is the heart of the lightsaber. If a Jedi can fall to the dark side, why can't the crystal change in the process?

You happy SJS?
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Shaggy » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:24 pm

Yes... yes I am
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Archangel » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:29 pm

It's not so much that crystals "used to work" one way, a way to which I was accustomed, and now they work some other way.

It's that the system used to be pseudoscience, and now it's just full-blown fantasy.

Which is fine. I like fantasy. I even like getting some fantasy in my sci-fi, or some sci-fi in my fantasy. But I'm less likely to enjoy writing a Jedi in Star Wars, which should be this wonderful working together of science and faith and fantasy and paganism and mythology and power and magic and technology... but instead it's trending closer and closer to a Forgotten Realms fanfic with lasers instead of arrows and Mandalorians instead of drow.

To me, changing Star Wars from a mixture of concrete pseudoscience and magic to just boring old regular magic takes away some of its charm. I can find regular magic in a dozen, a hundred, different intellectual properties (or create my own). Why should I write in the one that also has midichlorians and Jar Jar Binks and mediocre dialogue? If the sword isn't a laser sword that requires both magical and technical skill to construct and works in mysterious ways, but just a plain magic sword, what makes it more interesting than Excalibur or Twinkle or Icingdeath?

Anyway. It's probably just a reflection on how out-of-touch I am with the new canon (outside the films). I'll probably read Thrawn, but that's because I'm a T-Zahn groupie (in no small part because he writes sci-fi, even when he's writing Star Wars).

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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Cadden » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:00 am

Mir wrote:
Cadden wrote:And that Cadden is corrupted because his armor is red? Is his armor bleeding?

I'm going to regret asking about Cadden. :oldrazz:
I don't think anyone cares. :D
Ouch. That hurt, man. :(
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Jagtai » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:04 pm

Archangel wrote:It's not so much that crystals "used to work" one way, a way to which I was accustomed, and now they work some other way.

It's that the system used to be pseudoscience, and now it's just full-blown fantasy.

Which is fine. I like fantasy. I even like getting some fantasy in my sci-fi, or some sci-fi in my fantasy. But I'm less likely to enjoy writing a Jedi in Star Wars, which should be this wonderful working together of science and faith and fantasy and paganism and mythology and power and magic and technology... but instead it's trending closer and closer to a Forgotten Realms fanfic with lasers instead of arrows and Mandalorians instead of drow.

To me, changing Star Wars from a mixture of concrete pseudoscience and magic to just boring old regular magic takes away some of its charm. I can find regular magic in a dozen, a hundred, different intellectual properties (or create my own). Why should I write in the one that also has midichlorians and Jar Jar Binks and mediocre dialogue? If the sword isn't a laser sword that requires both magical and technical skill to construct and works in mysterious ways, but just a plain magic sword, what makes it more interesting than Excalibur or Twinkle or Icingdeath?

Anyway. It's probably just a reflection on how out-of-touch I am with the new canon (outside the films). I'll probably read Thrawn, but that's because I'm a T-Zahn groupie (in no small part because he writes sci-fi, even when he's writing Star Wars).
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Mir » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:58 pm

I don't think the reduction of science in favor of magic is as large as you think, but I see your point.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Shaggy » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:47 pm

I thought the crystals always did always have a connection with the force. That is why the Sith had to make the artificial ones. With the sith also trying to produce saber after saber to keep up with the demand for more Sith during the old republic/Sith Empire war, artificial was the way to go mostly due to patience not being a Sith quality.

I would love for the artificial crystal to come back. Make the corrupted crystals almost like right of passage for the Sith higher ups or even Lords. You kill a Jedi, take their saber as a trophies but you corrupt the heart of the saber.

I also don't see them taking away from the science or pseudo science with this crystal part. I think it solidifies the connection between Jedi and saber. Plus you have to have all the rest of the technology in order to power and contain the blade.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by coronhorn » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:47 pm

I think the primary flaw in this idea is that REvenge of the Sith runs counter to it, if this was the way it was then Anakin's blade should have been red at the end of the film but it stayed blue even after he was corrupted by the darkside.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Pryde » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:51 pm

Not really sure that's how that works. Corrupting a kyber crystal sounds like a process, it doesn't sound like something that just happens. You gotta add baking soda, water, mix it up. Ya gotta do shit to it. :P
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by Cadden » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:07 am

coronhorn wrote:then Anakin's blade should have been red at the end of the film but it stayed blue even after he was corrupted by the darkside.
Maybe they explain it by stating the individual has to corrupt it, not the dark side of the Force in general? It still has flaws, but it could at least provide a decent enough explanation to sufficiently ignore such an inconsistency.
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Re: Light saber Crystals

Post by TalRaimi » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:42 am

I always saw the Lightsaber as a symbol and a tool rather than anything else. But then I also assumed that a true Jedi Master was above the need for a lightsaber, a notion that the prequels disabused me off. I blame Tim Zahn for putting that idea into my head when he talked about how terrifying a full on Force battle between two Jedi Masters must have been. And then we see Yoda and Palpy using lightsabers like normal folk.

So far I've not been a huge fan of the changes to canon and can't say I'm particularly on-board with this one. Personally I find the more you try and explain the Force and it's connection to things the more you diminish it and demystify it.

In summary I agree with Jag and Arch.
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