Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Pryde »

There are myths and legends, obviously. Otherwise Rey wouldn't even know who the Jedi are, but I don't think any Force Sensitives are going to feel the need to "team up" until they meet someone like them. There are a few things that have to happen first, one our future Jedi need motivation to team up and knowing the threat they face will help with that. Perhaps being hunted by Kylo Ren or the First Order can be a catalyst to the beginning of an adventure for some. Second, our Force Sensitives need to know there are others out there with the same abilities. I think Force Sensitives are rare enough that it would be easy for a few to think that they might be the only ones who can do the things they do. Third, something needs to bring them all together, some kind of greater threat or a need for survival. Lastly, once the group is together and an organization is formed then we can start going out and looking for more Jedi potentials.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Vox »

Red Dragon wrote:I don't think shaggy is talking about some random putting together a jedi order, just a team of force sensitives. And no one cares if there is anyone that can train them. They are self trained or received training for other force sensitives (NOT JEDI) from their home world. Be it a wise man/woman, a church of some sort or whatever. You don't want more jedi in the galaxy other then Luke, that's fine, I won't have a Jedi, but i sure am going to have a force sensitive or two, and like it or not they are going to be comparable to at least a knight in power, but they aren't going to be a jedi, because they weren't trained by jedi, they don't follow the jedi code. They don't give a damn about the NR, unless maybe the NR pays very well or captures them for one reason or another. As for the Knights of Ren coming after them, bring it. I will have them fight it out to a draw where all parties survive ( to preserve the cannon of the Knights of Ren and leave their fate to the movies/books, or if i felt like it have them murder my character. That's what we do here after all, write our own stories. :D
And this folks is why we need to think this through...a lot. A prime example about why we had, need to have rules that govern everything. This is also the path to the dark side of the Force.... :emperor:


In all reality if you remove the context of the Jedi and just say "Force-user" well, are we talking people who rob banks using the Force? What about Force sensitives that have no moral code? Are we okay with that? Sure you will always have the "good guys" who don't go to "church" and live a morally upstanding life but where are we placing limits? I think we need to make a very finite line between "force-user" and "force sensitive". Rey is a "force-sensitive" individual in TFA. Kylo Ren is a "force-user". Yes he is a dark Jedi but he is also trained in how to use the Force. Using something doesn't make you adept or good at it. How is someone who isn't trained in something going to be good at it? You can't have a "knight level powered" person running around without training. You'll never get that far. Why? Because in order to get better at something you have to be properly trained.

Here is an example:

If you teach yourself to fight but have bad habits or watch a video are you as good as someone who has been trained specifically in that way of fighting? Absolutely not. You will have bad habits that keep you from being better. There are certain walls you hit that cannot be overcome without external training.

Another prime example is simply taking a source of power and letting it go without containment. It will be powerful but completely unwieldy and absolutely dangerous to itself and everything around it. Stick it in a power line, give it a conduit and it becomes focused and can light a house.

I think we need to be very specific and intentional with what we are trying to achieve. I for one especially think someone who is untrained fighting the Knights of Ren to a draw is absurd and absolutely bonkers thinking (for the record yes that bothers me about the Kylo/Rey fight). We need to make sure this is hammered out.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Pryde »

It's really hard to gauge how powerful a Jedi Knight really is, to be honest. Especially in comparison to other Force using religions. In regards to the Knights of Ren, though, they may all be Force Sensitive but they use a variety of weapons. Kylo is the only one we saw with a lightsaber, the others use various blade and blunt weapons as well as blasters. We also don't know how many if of them there are so there could be canon fodder, who knows?

As for starting out at knight level? Me I'm not personally comfortable with that. My own Force Sensitive is going to start out with zero training before she gets swept up in some kind of would crazy adventure in which at some point she meets an unlikely survivor of Luke's academy who starts to give her some tutelage.

... At least that's the plan, but I wouldn't go and tell someone they had to start completely from scratch, also.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Nichalus »

Since we're basically spinning wheels here. Here is the options that I have gathered so far from this discussion.

1 - We allow Force Sensitives/Users, but they are untrained and NOT to the level of a Jedi Knight, and absolutely NOT to the level of a Jedi Master.

2 - We allow Ex-Jedi Knights (exiled/quit/retired), but are limited to 1 or 2 per member. Force Sensitives/Users allowed, but they are untrained and CAN be to the level of a Jedi Knight. There are absolutely NO Jedi/Force Sensitives/Users to the level of a Jedi Master.

3 - NO FORCE SENSITIVES/USERS AND/OR JEDI.

Any additional choices, or additions to the choices above?
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Nichalus »

I have modified the choices for clarity.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

As far as I can surmise, those options adequately and with clarity represent the majority of the discussion that has transpired.

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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by TalRaimi »

While I am excited about a rebooted forum I feel that this issue is symptomatic of the new Star Wars Universe's world building being incomplete and as such leaving such issues open to interpretation.

Each of those three options can be argued for or against pretty well with no concrete evidence around to prove them right or wrong. I think we may just have to decide what option we want to go for and then if in later films, books, comics it's proved incorrect then tough.

Personally if I can get writing again I was thinking of rebooting an old character who was a former Jedi apprentice who became an inquisitor and then was in turn betrayed by the Empire. Of course in terms of his power level he would be equivalent to a Jedi Knight... so that may not work for the forum. Although my personal take is it all depends on the story. What appeals to me more about him is his tortured past rather than his level of power, that's just incidental to what he's been through.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

What people need to remember is time when it comes to the Ex-Jedi Knights.

Assume that you had a person who was part of the old Jedi Order. That makes the most sense. Then assume that they were as young as possible when they became a Jedi Knight. Anakin became a Jedi Knight when he was 20 I think but that was supposed to be rare, so let's go with 25. Add 20 years (Between RotS and ANH. 45. Add 4 (Between ANH and RoTJ). 49. Assume we do end up with that 10 year gap between RoTJ and our new setting. Your ex-Jedi Knight character would be 59-60.

That's Nich old. That's wrinkly.

Especially if you go with a human.

Now, Mir does have a workaround. But Mir is saving it because people keep stealing Mir's genius.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Red Dragon »

I never meant the my FSs would start out jedi knight lvl and its my fault for not explaining better i suppose. What kinda urking me is that you keep saying that they need to be trained. And you did bring up good point about bad habits and hitting a wall when it comes to self improvement/teaching. That stuff falls under the story the writer wants to portray. I'm going off the assumption that maybe your thinking like i am, in that I'm not talking about a "analog" of a jedi or sith.

I'm thinking of like a kick boxer that is trained as a kick boxer who is now applying what she discovered about her power (the force) behind that. Now we got a chun lee that can kick a tank to scrap, mind you this is an example but i hope this makes it clearer on how i'm thinking about this.

As for the Power levels... gonig with the example i just provided, as a knight could possibly cut a tank up to scrap, how would that be any different then our chun lee from kicking it to scrap... other then the jedi used a lightsaber...
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

That's vastly different from the one sentence you previously said about a knight level character.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Nichalus »

Personally I think if we go with either 1 or 2, by the time we write out our characters story, and a 'first' adventure, by that time VIII comes out we will know a lot more about the status of the Jedi and Force folks.

I think we should fully flesh out our new characters and not go for the 'instant power' route. It's about the story, not the power.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Red Dragon »

Mir wrote:That's vastly different from the one sentence you previously said about a knight level character.
Which one?

I'll go with what you guys decide but I wrote on a forum that limited force users before, to the point where the board leaders would personally select those that were allowed to have a force character. It was very restrictive, not very fun because they would then dictate what you could and couldn't do with that character, and they played favorites with the selection process. Not saying that's the direction we will be taking here but its kinda starting to sound like that to me, and if the first point of this reboot is to bring in more people, that could be a major turn off for them.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Nichalus »

We are hardly 'restrictive'. But, by that token the MBT is collaborative with all the other members, and it is the only forum where we all need to work together so that we don't do something that would interfere with the others stories.

Example, blowing up major worlds, killing canon players, interfering in galactic politics, etc...while we are loosely following the new SW canon, we can diverge in some things, on others not so much.

If we do want to draw more members, and we are so far off the beaten path from the canon, it confuses them and would be just as much a turn off as being too restrictive.

That's where the Story Coordinators come in. It's their job to make sure that one member(s) story won't interfere, or change things too drastically.

And option 2 doesn't restrict members from having Force Users, just the amount until such time as we have a more firm bearing on the State of them.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Nichalus »

What I believe Mir is referring to...

[quote=Red Dragon] ...but i sure am going to have a force sensitive or two, and like it or not they are going to be comparable to at least a knight in power[/quote]

Again I point out that the MBT is the ONLY forum on this board where we have some rules, as we need to write stories in the context that your actions 'could' effect others writings. There are several other forum on this site where you can write whatever you want without any restriction at all.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Pryde »

Red, we are not going to dictate to people what characters they can play. That's why we're having a vote, to pick an option that will give everyone as much freedom as possible (within reason) but is something we can all agree on.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

There doesn't appear to be any further commentary about this topic.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

Mir demands change he can believe in.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Archangel »

It's moments like this that I kinda wish we could use images without crashing the forum.

And then I reread what I just wrote and it sounds so sad in the modern era of web design and computing.

I didn't comment on this topic because I honestly think enough has been said on it. Personally, if I get back into writing here (which I hope to do, but I can't add more hours to the day, so we'll see whether that holds up), I expect I will write mostly simple folk with critical flaws that are outweighed by superfantastic skills, or maybe high-functioning sociopaths who are chasing the dragon, or maybe Force-sensitives where the Force sensitivity is basically the same as having strong intuition and a quick mind and suddenly I don't know why mere Force sensitivity makes anyone special when human genetics have that kind of variation in natural ability.

I would probably also eventually write someone who wants to become a powerful Force user, and either does so by evil, power-grabby means (with holocrons and red-themed weaponry and killing people that are emotionally important to them and seeing what that does to their psyche), or does so by putting on funky robes (because they don't get washed often, not because they belong in a discotheque) and drawing a bullseye on their backs by saying, "The Jedi once were great, and I think we should emulate that, even though I don't have any training, and now I'm in way over my head and holy crap why are you killing me this hurts."

Because both of those stories sound super-interesting in a wide-open Star Wars world that hasn't been nailed down yet.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

I want the options above to go to vote so we can move on to other more divisive topics.

Like who's turn it is to give Nich a bath.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Nichalus »

Keep you panties on Mir, or move your purse to your other shoulder. I've posted a possible solution to the other Mods, and after they look at it, we will present it to everyone to have a look see.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

It's a free country. Don't youse tell me what to do with mah purse, or my undahpants.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Shaggy »

I don't want to hear about your cross dressing and accessories. :P
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

Then you better hope Le Mods work faster.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Starlight »

Well that escalated quickly. :? Geez, away two days on a business trip and look what I come back to. Can't wait to see what happens by the time I get home.
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Mir »

Shaggy got a pet monkey named Bigsby Collins
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Re: Reboot Discussion - Jedi/Force Users

Post by Red Dragon »

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