Reboot: Wikia

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Canon/Legends: Banner or Template?

Poll ended at Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:26 pm

Banner
1
33%
Template
2
67%
 
Total votes: 3

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Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:26 pm

As we have moved from possibility to reality of a reboot, we need to look at our go-to source of information in SW:E. The Visual Encyclopedia (aka: Wikia). As you all should be aware by now, Mir is taking the initiative to work on categories, and I'm looking at slapping that banner onto our Wikia that Wookieepedia uses.

I've ran into a hiccup. In that Wookieepedia uses some weird code to get that banner thing to appear.

A simpler approach and easier solution would be to create an article template that would identify the article as our Canon or Legends classification. This has the drawback of being a little more of an eyesore, but again, it's easier to work with and implement. So I need your guys' opinion on this one. Should we push for the banner, like Wookieepedia has, or are we satisfied with just slapping a template on all our articles stating whether it's Canon or Legends? Keep in mind that, once it's decided upon, it's going to be permanent. This is going to be a huge undertaking, as it is. We don't need to do it twice.

I'd like to add that I can probably figure out the banner in time, but just glancing at how Wookieepedia did it I'm not seeing it as an easy endeavor to replicate properly. I will keep looking into it, however, for the duration of this poll. I do realize this might invalidate the poll itself, but please keep in mind it's only present in the case that this is going to be more trouble and effort than it's worth. I don't want people to be voting one way or another just because they want a "quick fix."

I'm keeping this poll indefinite, and it will close when we're ready to start the migration. Which can be as early as this weekend to as late as... never. :oldrazz: (I'd say by April 1.) If I can figure out the banner bit, then the poll will become invalid. If I don't, and people are advocating for the template instead, then we'll go that route.

This brought about some other thoughts to follow, below:

All context-specific categories (characters, locations, technologies, organizations and governments, etc.) and articles will be renamed appropriately. This is going to be a total push, no article and category will be left untouched. That's a lie, actually... general categories (like the Featured Article) will be left alone, as they're not context-specific. But all others will not be untouched!

Secondly, our article templates will require some minor reworking to separate the auto-categorizations. This will be a little more annoying and a bit more of a nuisance to work with, but it's still necessary, else our articles will be classified incorrectly when we use them.

Once again, this is going to be a huge undertaking, so... we need your help! With half of the Wikia admin team gone AWOL, and the other half not really caring anymore... I mean... busy and stuff... yeah... :oldrazz: (no, really... we care....) all help will be greatly appreciated. This is what we need:

ANY and ALL MBT articles need to be moved to the new Legends format. Instructions will follow when we're ready for this push to happen... primarily because I'm not entirely sure if it's just a simple matter of moving the articles to "(Article Name)/Legends" or not. PLUS: all links in these articles will have to redirect to the new article names... because, honestly, if they don't we're just going to wind up confusing people....

Yeah, it's daunting. It's huge. And it's going to take a while... but it's necessary in order to differentiate between the current MBT and the new in our Wikia. Unlike canon, we won't be having any "commonalities" in our canon. And if it is, I think we're all under the consensus that they're going to be minimal.

Please keep all discussions to a minimum on this thread. If you have ideas and suggestions that can help streamline this process, or you'd like to volunteer, then feel free to speak up. Otherwise, just please cast your vote. Participation in the Wikia conversion process is going to be expected of everyone, so no need to volunteer for that. If you write here, and you've contributed to the MBT, you've been voluntold. :stormtrooper:
Last edited by Cadden on Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:30 pm

This could be a good time to prune some of the MBT articles, tbh.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:36 pm

True dat.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:42 pm

I also want to point out I may be able to conscript who I'm assuming is the creator (or, at the very least, a significant contributor) to help us get ours going, but there are no promises. It's looking more and more complex the more I'm looking at it, so I'll wait and see what y'all say before I start that venture.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Vox » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:47 pm

I think we need to prune the articles that have no more relevance honestly (i.e. the Wild Star Confederacy).

It will take a while to do this conversion but it'll be worth it.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Archangel » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:36 pm

FWIW, if you use the rename/move function, it should automatically create a redirect at the old name. So the only time the old links won't work is if you create a "new canon" version of the article at the old name... but if you also link that article to the "Legends" article, it wouldn't really be an issue.

So we shouldn't have to go throughout the Wiki to edit links, is what I'm saying.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:44 pm

Yes, but I'm seeing a growing interest in people pursuing rebooted versions of current chars, etc. Like I'm going to reboot Cadden and, likely, the Adens, along with much of the Mandos.

So whatever would link to that would need to have said links updated.

But I'm not likely to reboot, say, L'hnnar, so, obviously, I won't need to worry about that.

I understand my initial post was misleading in that respect. I was just brain-dumping at that point.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:45 pm

Unfortunately there's going to be a lot of remade links. Just think of the TIE series alone: Fighter, bomber, interceptor, advanced, Defender.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:58 am

So I'm going to start this process today, by making a [[Category: Legends]].

As an update regarding templates v. banners, I think Cadden has made some progress with the banners thing.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:47 am

It brings me no small amount of pleasure to announce that Mr. Blackthorne has cracked the code.

For your viewing consideration.

I can change the way it auto-categorizes the pages (in fact, I very extremely likely will), but my main concern was to get it running first and foremost.

All you have to do is, simply, add {{Eras}} at the top of your article. All "Legends" articles will be renamed to "Article Name/Legends". The only thing I have yet to figure out is how to get rid of the "home link" above the banner on the Legends articles. But I can't expect that to take much effort, by comparison.

I am, as such, closing the poll. You may feel free to comment on your thoughts and opinions of the banner, but, as per my original post, the poll is now null and void.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Balsa » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:49 am

I know I'm not an active member of the community anymore, but you're not going to prune (aka delete) any of the existing articles, right? If so, perhaps giving a grace period to allow users to backup their articles might be a nice gesture.

I for one would like to backup the articles I've written in case I need them in the future.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:24 am

Anything that a Wikia admin deletes can be restored with one click. Everything is automatically backed up.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Balsa » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:50 am

I'm well aware of that. I don't want to have to restore something to retrieve it and then delete it again.

Or else, perhaps give a 2 weeks notice or 4 weeks or whatever before pruning of articles. That'll give people time to retrieve anything.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:59 am

The only way those people would be aware of it is if they continue to check this site and see the thread. I don't think we're about to go on a mass mailing campaign to get people aware that things they haven't worked on in multiple years are going to be, in essence, hidden from view. I know that I'm referring to, since I'm the one who started this, things like Marrak's Military Armaments, which hasn't been gainfully worked on by the creator since 2006. Obviously I'm not advocating for the deletion of articles like Ashin Varanin or Adam Sage.

Said items don't even need to be restored and deleted again. Admins can still view the pages and retrieve the information in question.

A user would need to speak to the admin anyway if a restore/delete was required.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:06 am

I'm not condoning the pruning to happen, just yet. While beneficial, I'm taking the wiki one step at a time. The biggest obstacle has been handled. Once we figure out what kind of admin team we have left to work with ( :? ), we'll determine the approach that's best.

In either case, in terms of minimizing workload, we'll give a head's up on what will be deleted, based on whatever parameters are determined as considering factors. For example, my Regalis Imperium stuff has a 99.99% chance of going, but, like you, I'd like to save it first. So, a safe assumption to be made is we're likely to target stuff that was created X amount of time ago, determine if it's been touched at all, take into consideration member activity, and decide then. As one broad example. I'm sure there's other stuff worth considering for pruning.

Bottom line: Yes, I agree that a head's up should be given, but I don't know what the timeframe will be. We've done this in the past with other administrative decisions, which either turned out completely counter-productive in the long haul due to others' lack of following such decisions or the ball was dropped. (I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone in particular, here. But I am blaming Mir. Because.)
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Archangel » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:08 am

It probably wouldn't be a bad thing to prune all those Wiki pages I made infoboxes for but then never wrote articles for.

There are a bunch of them.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Balsa » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:10 am

Your words resound with logic.

Though, I wasn't advocating a mail campaign to alert users. More like once a decision is made, give it X weeks before the mass pruning begins.

In any case, I've backed-up my pages, so I'm set. :)

I'm curious, though, what is the logic to determine if a page needs to be pruned instead of reclassified as Legends?

Edit My post was in reply to Mir's post.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:37 am

That logic will be determined at a later point. At this junction, we're merely establishing whether people are interested in cleaning up the wiki.

But don't worry, Balsa, I'm sure you'll be aware of the discussion when it takes place.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:12 am

ALL current content is being reclassified as Legends, so that's a bit irrelevant. The pruning is based on various factors. If it's ever been RPed, based on time of creation and member activity or if it ever will be RPed, if it's even relevant (like Vox's mentioning of the work he's looking at doing on WSC articles), etc. Being Legends vs Canon is besides the point.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Nichalus » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:39 am

I think a pruning is 'sorely' needed both on the Wiki and Forums.

I would go so far as to say any Wiki article who's owner has not been a active member here in over 5 years needs to be pruned out. I believe it would be safe to say they aren't coming back. That alone will probably clear up quite a bit of articles from the Wiki.

For those members that have been inactive less than that time, I believe a PM will suffice giving them a 2 week window of warning.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:55 am

There are other things to consider, as well. Like Topgun/Niko. He's been inactive, but his stuff will not be pruned, because 1) it's directly relevant to other things going on, and 2) I'm given full permission to write them in his stead. (Speaking exclusively to the Mandos, here, as I don't believe he has any other articles, but I could be mistaken.) Add in 3) he's expressed to me several times wanting to come back, but he's typically swamped with his school stuff so he barely gets opportunities to even read bits I send to him for review when deemed necessary.

Using that as a basis, just because the person has been inactive for that "less than 5 years" timeframe, doesn't mean their stuff should be automatically pruned if they don't respond to a PM within that 2 week window. But, when we're ready to tackle it, we'll get together how it will be approached, worry not.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:09 am

I think your third point is rendered moot by your first and second. Regardless of whether Niko comes back, the fact that you were given permission to write his Mandalorian characters covers the bases.

But to take Niko for an example. He did give you permission to write his Mandalorian people. But what about the rest of them?

Like the Cassaran Star Republic for example? Hasn't been worked on since 2008 when he left. Hasn't been mentioned in any posts since 2009.

I fully agree that there will be exceptions, but we'll have to start with some kind of baseline.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:15 am

That's why I distinguished the third point with "add in".

I could ask him about all his stuff, though. I honestly don't know what, if anything, he has on the wiki beyond the Mandos.

The baseline is good to work with, just the point I'm making is that we need to look at everything as a case-by-case basis, and not just lump everything together and say, "We'll PM all these guys, and if they don't respond in 2 weeks we delete their targeted stuff." It wouldn't be fair to those who, say, are unlikely to check their PMs in that timeline because of how swamped they are otherwise. (Again, using Top as an example.)
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:20 am

I think Niko will definitively be the exception for the people who don't check their PMs over 2 weeks.

A 2009 cutoff means that those who defected are still safe.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Vox » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:47 am

When it comes to old articles I think pruning is possible but also are we removing that from existence by pruning them? I have no issue with the WSC being pruned even though it played a significant role for a long time. Would I like to flesh it out completely? Sure. Is it necessary? Nope. Will I miss it? Not really. I have my focus. I have time for three storylines basically and that's it. No more, so it won't hurt my feelings if it goes.

One exception would be the Xen'Chi. Don't remove that. I'd like to eventually get around to getting all that stuff fleshed out in a wikia but again I can always add it again later once it is completed under the "Legends" Title

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:58 am

I see it as the same word for two different terms. Deleting articles that reference to nothing (kind of negates the idea of a "visual encyclopedia"), and cleaning articles that which desperately need it (like the Xen'Chi stuff). Yes, we have a system in place that allows for that to happen, but it really never did. Part of the fault was with the admin team, part of it was with the people utilizing the wiki. We're touching pretty much every article, anyway, so we may as well clean them up or delete then entirely (whichever is more applicable) as we get to them.

In the case of things such as WSC and the Xen'Chi, I don't see a deletion being applicable. But, as an example, the Regalis Imperium it would be, because I never did, nor at this point ever will, utilize it. Maybe MMA? Though I'm not entirely convinced on that one, because it was active and played its role when it was being RPed. The first determining factor is if it's ever been RPed. Then how inactive the member has been. Then determine the relevancy of keeping it on the Wikia.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:25 am

Cadden wrote:The first determining factor is if it's ever been RPed. Then how inactive the member has been. Then determine the relevancy of keeping it on the Wikia.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Jagtai » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:41 am

*slams door open*

Mir, if you prune the Black Star Confederacy articles, I will END you.

*slams door*
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Vox » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:12 pm

Jagtai wrote:*slams door open*

Mir, if you prune the Black Star Confederacy articles, I will END you.

*slams door*
Then I'll prune them.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:14 am

Jagtai wrote:*slams door open*

Mir, if you prune the Black Star Confederacy articles, I will END you.

*slams door*
My plans may be derailed, but they will be accomplished.

My victory will be complete.

But really, they gon' get got if it falls beyond that 2009 window. But I don't think they do. So relax and be safe. Sheltering the Heir of Silke until the opportune moment arises.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Jagtai » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:40 pm

Vox, have you heard of the form of execution called "drawn and quartered"? 'Nough said.

Unless you intended to blame Mir, in which case I'll apply it to him :P
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Mir » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:32 am

Mir will take his chances.

*Takes aim at Lucath and Nietdath and the whole Brotherhood of Twilight*

What? You said Black Star Confederacy. I'm in this for the long haul. Mir vs. Jaggie.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:09 am

Jagtai wrote:Vox, have you heard of the form of execution called "drawn and quartered"? 'Nough said.
So you'll draw us and give us a quarter? Sounds like a good form of execution to me.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Vox » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:27 am

Jag, I've seen pictures of your mother no form of torture could cause me any more pain....

I'll edit the BSC for you Mirr.

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Jagtai » Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:02 am

Where WAS the ban button...

:twisted:

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Jagtai » Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:02 am

Vox wrote:Jag, I've seen pictures of your mother no form of torture could cause me any more pain....

I'll edit the BSC for you Mirr.
Obviously, you've never gazed in a mirror...

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Jagtai » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:25 pm

Cadden, a question:

What do I do, if I want to keep an article in Legends, but have no intention (right now, anyway) of using that character/place/whatever in Canon? Do I still change the article name to include "/Legends" and set the {{Eras}} template, even though there is no canon article?

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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:50 pm

I'm operating it similar to Wook's. So if there's no new canon version, no need to rename it.

I haven't tested it, yet, but all you'd need to do is slap {{Eras|Legends}} at the top of the article and it should put the banner on top with "Legends" identified. This will keep people from confusing it with the new canon. (Though it might just slap the "Legends" icon instead, not sure. Again, haven't tested it, so....)
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Pryde » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:13 pm

Sooo, I did that thing you said and nothing's changed.
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Re: Reboot: Wikia

Post by Cadden » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:47 pm

It's probably "type=legends".

The template talks about it, though because I literally just copied Wook's and modified it to our purposes, I can't guarantee it'll work any other way than as shown with Cadden Blackthorne.
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