Exodus Reboot Discussion

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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

.....By that same logic, anything could happen because anything could happen. We work with the facts as we know them at the moment.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Pryde »

The point, Mir, is to not limit people's options. We're not going to draw a lot of attention if we tell new people, "No, you can't be a Jedi." I think something like, "You can be a Jedi with these conditions," is a bit more reasonable and not so completely outside the realm of possibility in this new canon. The galaxy, as Nich said, is a big place. Bigger than our Milky Way and the Milky Way is pretty big. Hyperspace makes it seem smaller but there's still plenty of nooks and crannies and planets that haven't been explored yet.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Pryde »

As a side note, people tend to be ignorant and label things based on preconceived beliefs. So something that looks and acts like a Jedi might be called a Jedi even if they have no force powers to speak of and having said that I now have an idea for a story...
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Pryde »

Anyway, reasons for being closer to TFA;

Given the ire with which Hux speaks about the Resistance it sounds like they might have been fighting for awhile but I doubt they've been at it for ten years.

At 20 years after Endor it's possible the First Order is still in secrecy mode so we could end up with a fledgling republic and no visible threat to speak of.

Edit:

I've only done a cursory glance but it seems like everything is pointing towards 3 decades after Endor as the date that stuff starts happening. The First Order becomes a credible threat 3 decades after Endor largely escaping notice of the Republic until then. The First Order-Resistance conflict begins 3 decades after Endor maybe implying that the Resistance was founded within the same year as the movie? Or at least very close to it. Anyway, like I said, cursory glance.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

We should probably set a date for us to have all this figured out. We're just spinning wheels if we don't do constructive stuff. Just me.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Archangel »

That's what I was hoping would happen with the vote.

But then people didn't like the way the vote was leaning and decided to go back to arguing.

So now we need a new plan.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

Well the vote seems to be doing alright. It ends in on the 29th.

Maybe we can decide to start implementing things on 15 Apr?
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by TalRaimi »

So... that seemed to spark some discussion.

There's nothing wrong with abiding by the result of the vote, I was merely pointing out that it might be tricky to RP in. Without reading any of the new Disney EU I have zero idea what would have been happening 20 years post Endor. Is there even any EU out there to cover it yet?
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Pryde »

Here's a list of books and things that have come out.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Vox »

Pryde2000 wrote:A few Jedi survived the purge in the EU which is why I said Yoda was wrong at least as far as the EU is concerned. The EU was at one point canon. For all we know Disney might one day publish a book that will contradict the last Jedi statement in TFA.
Except that EU doesn't exist anymore. So using it as reference, like you stated, it's irrelevant. Unless someone, somewhere writes a book stating clearly that there are other Jedi Luke is it.

Being Force-sensitive means nothing at this point. No one to train your character, nothing to read to learn about, absolutely nothing to go on. The Jedi are thought of as a myth at this point. So we'd have to ignore the new Canon to have any Jedi whatsoever in our timeline. Especially if we stay as far away from TFA as has been voted on at the moment.


As for the rest, I still think we need to stay closer to what we know than further away from it. It will pay off in the long run if we get as close to TFA as we can. Being a decade away from TFA means really we're preparing ourselves to have to rewrite canon as we go unless we're going to stray away like we did last time.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Pryde »

There are still Jedi artifacts to be found. We know this because Lor San Tekka went on a mission with Luke Skywalker to recover some of them. Plus Lor San Tekka was the leader of a cult... *Cough* community called the Church of the Force or something like that so the Jedi being a myth thing isn't true for everyone. I don't think Lor San's people are force trained at all but being that they worship the Force basically it's not out of the question that they might have an artifact or two. Also, the first Jedi temple is still out there and has not been raided by the Empire which opens up the possibility of there being other sites out there the Empire hasn't found, either. If we want to say all the Jedi are dead then fine, all the Jedi are dead but I'm not going to buy into the all the Jedi artifacts are destroyed and gone argument at all.

Also, I'm pretty sure we agreed we weren't going to follow the new canon so strictly. The point of using Disney's canon is simply to set the stage. Lastly, April 15 sounds fine with me. If we're going with 10 years before TFA then I suggest the story coordinators at least dig into the new lore and learn as much as they can so we can figure out exactly what is happening 10 years before the movie.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Nichalus »

Archangel wrote:That's what I was hoping would happen with the vote.

But then people didn't like the way the vote was leaning and decided to go back to arguing.

So now we need a new plan.
You hit the nail on the head there Arch concerning the minority.

As for a 'new plan'...we can't even come together on a time.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

Pryde2000 wrote:There are still Jedi artifacts to be found. We know this because Lor San Tekka went on a mission with Luke Skywalker to recover some of them. Plus Lor San Tekka was the leader of a cult... *Cough* community called the Church of the Force or something like that so the Jedi being a myth thing isn't true for everyone. I don't think Lor San's people are force trained at all but being that they worship the Force basically it's not out of the question that they might have an artifact or two. Also, the first Jedi temple is still out there and has not been raided by the Empire which opens up the possibility of there being other sites out there the Empire hasn't found, either. If we want to say all the Jedi are dead then fine, all the Jedi are dead but I'm not going to buy into the all the Jedi artifacts are destroyed and gone argument at all.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Pryde »

Technically I haven't spoiled them.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

But now other people can get their filthy grubby mitts on 'em. Like Squiddles.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Archangel »

I haven't watched Star Wars: Rebels in a while, but doesn't that canonical source kind of defy the, "All the Jedi are dead in the original trilogy," claim? Or are both Master Whatsisname and Ezra Whinykid going to die in canon?

Or are we just assuming they do because they're not in the original trilogy?

Having said that, I agree that the story scroll is basically word-of-God when it comes to Star Wars--but then, I'd be perfectly fine if there were no Jedi at all. If we wanted Jedi that badly, we could start at the beginning of Episode VII, follow its canon perfectly (but be unimportant until afterward), then modify and adapt as VIII, et al, move forward, and have either Luke or Rey or whoever train our Jedi wannabes when the time comes. Or we could be Old Republic all the way. Or we could start right after RotJ and pretend Yoda was wrong about the number of Jedi.

Or we could be exactly literal and have Jensaarai or Dathomiri witches or pick your poison, but no Jedi. I thought we'd already established that we'd be involving Legends material, even if Disney doesn't, because otherwise, we'd have a darn short list of potential species and planets to work with.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by TalRaimi »

So playing devils advocate if we involve Legends material then doesn't it kind defeat the point of moving to the official canon?

BTW thanks for the link Pryde, something that struck me though was this line:

'After Jakku, “Journey to The Force Awakens” conspicuously jumps forward some 28 years in the future...'

So from my reading basically the New Republic pushes the Empire back into the Outer Rim and declares a peace treaty. Then demilitarizes and we have a status quo for 28 years. During this time the Empire reinvents itself to become the New Order? Or is the New Order separate to the Empire?

One of my frustrations with the way the new Star Wars is shaping up is that they seem to have decided to gloss over what's happened in the years post Endor in order to get us to the point they need to. And while I fully understand the decision to do so from a film making and even business point of view, it's frustrating considering I saw the old EU evolve step by step.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

TalRaimi wrote:So playing devils advocate if we involve Legends material then doesn't it kind defeat the point of moving to the official canon?
This has been my point for a lot of this discussion.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Archangel »

Mir wrote:
TalRaimi wrote:So playing devils advocate if we involve Legends material then doesn't it kind defeat the point of moving to the official canon?
This has been my point for a lot of this discussion.
*shrugs*

Honestly, it's no skin off my teeth. Or nose. Or posterior. But my approach to this is the same as Disney's - "That's all stuff that may or may not be true, depending on whether or not we think using it will improve the story we're crafting." I'd be happy to take the scroll as word-of-God, say that there are no more Jedi, and then immediately go write a Sky Warden or somesuch. But since it's Legends, I could turn around and say that all Sky Wardens are actually fat guys named Gregg who sit on space-couches eating space-Cheetos, and they're called "Sky Wardens" because one of the space-video space-games they play involves arranging space-shields around a planet to prevent asteroid strikes. And I could do that, because actual canon doesn't say two words about it. It'd be stupid, but it'd be possible.

Ultimately, my opinions on this follow several possible alternatives:
Option 1: My vision of artistic integrity in someone else's universe - Only write RPs that are character-driven, comparatively small in scope (keep in mind that that scope of the films is "saving the universe because last Jedi ZOMG"), don't have any meaningful impact on galactic events, and respect canon as it comes down from on high. As soon as you've written a story that should be on the news ticker when Rey walks into a bar in Episode VIII, you've gone too big. That leaves a ton of room for writing brilliant stories, even important ones (so long as they're not publicly important). It also means no Jedi and retconning what you have to whenever necessary. The major downside to this is that I'm probably not going to keep up with canon outside the films, which makes keeping things real pretty difficult. Legends material could be used, but only sparingly and only the small stuff (like "the Chiss exist," not, "Thrawn took over the Empire and almost destroyed the Republic").

Option 2: Blank slate - Start fresh in the wide open blue yonder that is the Star Wars galaxy. Anything canon as of today is canon. Anything canon as of tomorrow is garbage. Legends stuff can be adopted whole-hog or picked at piecemeal or dropped altogether, and we write whatever the hell we want, the way we did post-RotJ in ye olden days.

Option 3: We're like Disney now - This can follow any pattern in the spectrum between options 1 and 2, but the gist of it is that we're writing an all-new MBT canon, and the old MBT canon is Legends material. We use it the way Disney uses the actual Legends material. So it can be like Option 1, where we respect Disney's new canon, and we say, "I heard this story that there were these blue guys called Xen'Chi that messed up everybody's day," and somebody else says, "You're high! That never happened!" and we move on. Or it can be like Option 2, where we do whatever the hell we want, writers from here who come back later can restart anything they had going (so long as they adapt it to the new canon), and as thirteen-year-old newbies come in and want to write their overblown, "I'm Han Boba Starkiller Ren, the best pilot/smuggler/bounty hunter/super-duper-awesome-amazing Jedi in the universe and when you try to hit me, your lightsaber bends around me because I'm using the Force like a body-shield and nothing can hit me, it's so effing cool!" characters, they can. (Don't look at me like that; we were all 13 once.)

TL;DR: Option 1 is the guy mumbling, "I just write here," while crazy crap happens around him. Option 2 is the guy doing the crazy crap. And option 3 is the guy saying, "A bunch of the crazy crap that happened 10 years ago doesn't make any sense, because the guys doing it left the building, so I'd like to write new stuff without having to worry about that crazy crap."

If we're doing either Option 1 or Option 2, it makes the most sense to me to start c. The Force Awakens and go from there. The only reason 5-15 years pre-TFA makes sense to me is if we're going with Option 3, which was my original understanding of our purpose. But if everyone is thinking Option 1 or Option 2, then I might try to change my timeline vote.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Vox »

Just so we're all clear, I'm not against anything regarding the Jedi. I enjoy writing them and what not. Just being the Devils advocate because someone has to do the dirty work around here.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

:rolleyes:
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by TalRaimi »

With regard to Jedi, there's a character in Star Wars Rebels who was a member of the Jedi order before leaving it, and they say the line 'I am not a Jedi...' So you can take from that, that there could well be Force Sensitives, even very powerfully trained Force Sensitives around, but not Jedi, as in members of the Jedi Order. All you need is a creative backstory.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Pryde »

Archangel wrote:Or we could be exactly literal and have Jensaarai or Dathomiri witches or pick your poison, but no Jedi.
The Nightsisters of Dathomir are canon and one of them did survive the destruction of her clan. I don't know about the Jensaarai but there's at least one possibility. Another is that the scrawl is both right and wrong... Sort of. Luke could be the last person who identifies as Jedi. For instance there could be a survivor like Ahsoka who was trained by Jedi but left the order and no longer considers herself Jedi. Again, I feel like I need to state that I am not advocating for hundreds of former Jedi surviving the purges as that would be extremely unlikely. The First Order didn't just stop at hunting down the Jedi they went after anyone with Force affinity;

Source:
"With Snoke's successful manipulation of Kylo Ren to the dark side of the Force, his apprentice and the Knights of Ren would destroy Luke Skywalker's attempt at restarting the Jedi Order, with subsequent purges and hunting down those with Force affinity, much like the previous Inquisitorius of the Old Empire.[3]" - Wookieepedia

So a survivor such as this would have to be extremely rare, but I don't think it disrespects the new canon in any way. Anyway, that's enough out of me on the Jedi and things. The vote for the new timeline ends tomorrow and it looks like we have an 18 year gap to fill. Maybe we should start talking about the state of the galaxy 20 years after Endor and what exactly may happen after we start writing. Are we eventually going to start a conflict between the First Order and the New Republic? Or is the galaxy just going to stagnate and things are basically going to stay the same until we catch up with the movie?
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Shaggy »

For that to happen with Dathomir, you would need to wipe out the planet. Which might not be something that they would do yet. Now coming in a taking care of those who are the teachers and then destroying their teachings, could be something more possible. but since Dathomir was never a major player in the universe it could be overlooked same with the Jensaarai. they both could just be clumped together as another "mystic religion".
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Starlight »

Shaggy, stop with the reasonable discussion and go post in Pryngleville
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Shaggy »

Starlight wrote:Shaggy, stop with the reasonable discussion and go post in Pryngleville
Sorry :(

now where is this Pryngleville???
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

Pryngleville is only like the coolest place on the entire boards.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Shaggy »

That must be why I don't know where it is :( :cry:
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

Spiral of worlds bruh.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Starlight »

Mir, I thought you caught him up on everything.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

Mir did. Mir told him and was on FB messenger with him as he read through the discussion thread!
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Foxx »

I’ve been reading and staying out of most of this discussion. Probably because I can work with whatever it is everyone wants to do, so I don’t really have much of an opinion on this.

I was thinking, though, when it comes to the Jedi, that Nichalus and Pryde are right. There’s a lot of ways for us to work around what the new movie says happened. It shouldn’t be a hard problem, really. If you think about it, if Disney was able to say that none of the EU existed, we can say that our canon beats that.

I thought that’s what we did anyway, at least that’s how Paul explained all this to me when I first joined.

If you think about it, we’re only replacing “Lucas(film/art/books)” with “Disney” when it comes to changing what we want to change. If we did it with Lucas, why can’t we do it with Disney?

We're spending a lot of time talking about one point, which I guess makes sense since Jedi and Force users are very important. But we should probably talk about a lot of the other stuff too.

Hopefully we can get to that once the vote is finished. When did we get 17 people though?
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Red Dragon »

So I been thinking a lot about this reboot and TFA... I know its been brought up before how there is just so little lore from Disney atm but i wanted to throw my thoughts into this. Is it really realistic that the winning would automatically turn the whole galaxy into the New Republic? This question ran through my mind even with the old cannon. I feel that Yeah there would be a New Republic, but not the whole known galaxy would just up and join it. And while we have the First Order how realistic is it for the Empire to be completely gone? Yeah many factions of it went on to become the FO, that's nice and all but there would have to be some systems or warlords around who still uphold a lot of the Empires beliefs in some form or fashion.

What I'd like to see is many galactic factions, ( yeah we have that in the current MBT ), but have it more prevalent that there are so many, all of which the NR is trying to make peace with or have join the NR, but these factions also doing the same.

The NR isn't the big boy, though it sure is kinda trying to be, though not militarily as that would make them seem like the Empire. With their disarmament I'd say their biggest fleet would be the one that defends the Capital of the moment, while they also maintain a number of smaller fleets, like much smaller fleets, that patrol NR space. I'd also say that while they do maintain a small military, At least when compared to the Empire of old, they do keep it reasonably upto date, hence the new X-wings and likely other fighters. Just because the resistance only used handmedown X-wings doesn't mean that's all the NR Fleets used. We know there has to at least be Mk II B-wings as the Resistance "transports" were kinda built using parts of them. Dare i say that even if the NR might not use them many of the Legends EU fighters could have still been developed by their respective companies and sold. E-wing, K-wings the mythical C-wing.... all could still be there, all could be used by various factions... I'd hope that the NR would commission newer true warships, hell lets have the mon cla take a brake and they took back their cruisers. Now KDY, Rendilli, CEC and the other big shot shipyards build ships for the NR ( with KDY also building warships for the FO they are playing both sides... )

Anyway... many factions with many alliances and maybe possibly wars going on. NR is trying the bring in all under its wing as the NR should, and the FO is the "big bad" no one seems to give a shit about, accept for a VERY select few, up till TFA happens. Then snork invades the galaxy with a massive force lead by Thrawn, blah blah blah more starkiller bases, blah blah blah Galactic alliance, blahblahblah VONG...

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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Mir »

I don't believe that source material claims that the galaxy immediately went under NR control. There was a period of time exactly as you want/described. I wouldn't mind that, and I think that there's a possibility of that happening, on some scale, regardless of what time point we choose between RTJ and TFA. I know that Green Squadron will be dealing with exactly what you're talking about.
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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by corsos »

I'm not going to place a vote here since I am nowhere near active enough to really matter in what I have to say.

All i ask is that the MBT forum itself is preserved, even if renamed, for people to post and continue their stories in if they so choose.

That is all.

Great to see the place still kicking!

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Re: Exodus Reboot Discussion

Post by Nichalus »

The old MBT isn't going anywhere Corso.
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