Tython

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Tython

Post by Shaggy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:58 pm

Doing this so we don;t clutter up Behort's thread over there.

Tython, what happened? It is the ancestral home of the Jedi I believe and I was wondering why it is not in their hands. Also what are the major planets that the Jedi control?

Onderon: is not under their control because all that was there (and will be again) is a Temple.
City of the Jedi: Once again I believe destroyed not to be rebuilt (Cadden?)
Ossus: Jedi Library and council are here, don't know the full status of this.
Valley of the Jedi: Halcyon controls it but it is not in the Jedi hands? Clarification please

Anything else that I missed?
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Re: Tython

Post by Beorht » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:10 pm

Canonically, Tython has been lost because of shifting hyperspace routes for many years. Ghost's char stumbled onto it and has been doing a storyline there with Mirr for a good while now.

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Re: Tython

Post by Cadden » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:12 pm

Tython's history can be summed up in my posts regarding Ghost's "Returning Home" or w/e it's called thread. It's currently not under Jedi control. (EDIT: Beorht pretty much states why). In canon, it was not visited since Bane. So I kept with that spirit on the forums, and Aaralyn is the first "outsider" to visit the world since that instance.

Otherwise, the Guardians of the Force are stationed there. More details will be put on the Wikia about this whole schebang whenever I get around to doing it. This will include further details on the Guardians' presence there despite the whole Sith thing that happened with Bane and his pals. (I have yet to figure that part out, really.)

Taylon/City of the Jedi: The City of the Jedi (Kora) was pummeled to uselessness by the CE, yes. My understanding is that a temple was build on one of the mainlands to "replace" Kora. Otherwise, this is Cazzik's area of dealing, so he'd be better suited to answer a question on that.

Valley: Ruusan would be in Sith Brotherhood/CE hands, if the Jedi/NR/whoever left the world. The planet would pretty much remain as just a staging ground for future offensives, if this is the case. However, Adam needs to bring up an official statement on this, and he won't be about for a while, it will seem, given what's happened with him somewhat recently.
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Re: Tython

Post by Red Dragon » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:16 pm

I have a plan for the "Lost City of the Jedi" on Yavin 4, which is Miria finding it and maybe hording it for a bit. I kinda want to start my own Jedi Faction BUT it doesn't seem very possible. The faction would be actively seeking to destabilize/destroy the Sith Empire. Their Home base would be the Lost City, and The Jedi there would have access to very old texts and maybe some nifty anti sith powers and such. But again I'm not sure it would be possible, not to the scale I would like it to be. And anyway i hear there is going to be a war of SE vs NR anyway so... yeah likly end up giving the local to the Jedi order.
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Re: Tython

Post by Mir » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:27 pm

From what I know/understand/remember, permission was asked. After permission was received, there were a series of arguments/discussions between the Jedi FC, Halcyon508, and Ghost. Halcyon508 wanted the place to become Jedi Controlled, Ghost did not. As far as I'm concerned, considering it's been lost for such a long time, while it would be nice for the Jedi to have it, there shouldn't be any particular thought that says that it should and can only be Jedi controlled. That makes no sense to me.
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Re: Tython

Post by Cadden » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:30 pm

If I remember right... Adam wanted it under Jedi control eventually, which was seceded to.

I should also point out that the Guardians on Tython have nothing to do with Cadden's Guardians of the Force. Again, the Wikia will explain when I get around to updating it.
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Re: Tython

Post by Mir » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:32 pm

I've said all I know so I'll leave that to Ghost.
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Re: Tython

Post by Halomek » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:42 pm

Kalja will be doing some stuff with Tython once the WoD is over with.
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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:46 pm

There.

It was said.

I feel a bit comfortable repeating myself to include Kalja's name.

Ok.

Tython will not be apart of the Jedi Order.

There were many disagreements between myself and the Jedi Order FC about a great many things regarding Tython.

This isn't saying your characters will never be allowed to come to Tython, I'm not saying that. It took a few storylines, subtle hints and a great deal of planning to "rediscover" it essentially.

I have MSN if you wish to talk to me, but I am not elaborating further into this because I do not want to divulge into details of stories and so forth.

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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:50 pm

In regards to Tython, yeah, that would be me.

It's been planned out and has wheels in motion, has been in motion.

Started with the destruction of the Jedi Temple.

There are fluctuating hyperspace routes at the moment.

None are stable enough to support travel on a mass scale.

It was discovered (or rather rediscovered) after a thousand years by Aaralyn, for story purposes. Grand scale? Not really. Was discussed a while back (Last year?) with Halomek being involved.

Ownership will -not- default to the Jedi Order.

I made that clear.

This was because of internal and external conflicts between parties.

Haven't decided (Because there are two individuals it has to be discussed with because their characters are essentially heavily tied into it and I'm not going to make decisions without consulting them first?)


Repeating what I put on Korriban Thread.

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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:50 pm

The other items I cannot speak for cause I don't know.

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Re: Tython

Post by Cadden » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:59 pm

I wasn't positive about the Jedi Order bit, so yeah... if it's not gonna, it's not gonna. No skin off my teeth. :)
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Re: Tython

Post by Darkheyr » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:03 pm

The faction would be actively seeking to destabilize/destroy the Sith Empire.
...why?

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Re: Tython

Post by Beorht » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:09 pm

Yeah, not to be all 'my Sith have the moral high ground', but the SE hasn't really...done anything, apart from the Centrality's attack on the Systems Alliance way out in the middle of nowhere and the Enclave's raid on a small Jedi base a while back, for which they were duly punished. They treat their citizens well and don't hate on the Jedi as much as you'd think.

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Re: Tython

Post by Mir » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:14 pm

From what I understand, RD's character was on Alderraan just before it was destroyed and snuck through the time portal that Malakai created in the Time Walkers' thread. So the character probably is not up to date on current events since what, 0 BBY? I could understand why, when presented with a "Sith Empire" that character would be interested in taking it down, even if told that the SE are all happy teddy bears of love.
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Re: Tython

Post by Darkheyr » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:17 pm

If he wants to have any chance at that, he sorta needs to know about it, though.

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Re: Tython

Post by Shaggy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:18 pm

Ya the jedi are not actively seeking to kill the SE. Just right now Sivter is trying to actively kill the jedi and just about everyone else. I feel like we are moving back towards the SWTOR days. There is a very unsteady peace (or will be eventually) but we can get into that later.

My point is this, Tython is the home for the Jedi just like Korriban will become again. Just wondering why we can have it back again, much like Korriban will become. I know people have some stories for it but I am just seeing things being a little unbalanced right now between the Sith and the Jedi. I could be completely off in the view, but I am just stating what I think.
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Re: Tython

Post by Beorht » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:23 pm

Shaggy wrote:Ya the jedi are not actively seeking to kill the SE. Just right now Sivter is trying to actively kill the jedi and just about everyone else. I feel like we are moving back towards the SWTOR days. There is a very unsteady peace (or will be eventually) but we can get into that later.
I agree and I like it.
Shaggy wrote:My point is this, Tython is the home for the Jedi just like Korriban will become again. Just wondering why we can have it back again, much like Korriban will become. I know people have some stories for it but I am just seeing things being a little unbalanced right now between the Sith and the Jedi. I could be completely off in the view, but I am just stating what I think.
This makes sense too, but Ossus has also filled that role for the Jedi - before Tython was even invented, in fact. That's why the Jedi now own Ossus. I know it's kinda tainted in some peoples' minds because of its associations with peoples' powergames, but still, that's kind of an important world for Jedi heritage.

Besides, Ghost got to Tython first. That's fair.

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Re: Tython

Post by Halomek » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:25 pm

I don't want to get into too many details right now, but Kalja's business on Tython will only be tangentially related to the Jedi Order. It doesn't make much sense for Tython to revert to Jedi control at the moment for a number of reasons, but the biggest would probably have to be that the Empire and NR will be resuming hostilities with each other in the near future. Now that the Jedi are once again affiliated with the NR, the Empire isn't going to allow them to have a temple inside their borders since it essentially constitutes an enemy base.
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Re: Tython

Post by Shaggy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:27 pm

I'm not really going to get into the "I got there first" but I do like what you said that it is a special place for the Jedi and having a presence there on Tython will be a big deal for the Jedi. All that ancient knowledge would be a boon to them and would help in the bringing in of more characters through the release of SWTOR, that could make their way here.
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Re: Tython

Post by Mir » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:29 pm

Correction: The Jedi will be affiliated with the NR.

That hasn't actually come to pass yet. Jedi helping on Mon Cal went ways to getting there, but nothing formal has been done.

Shaggy:

Whether or not you want to get into it, it's still there and that's how things work. *Shrug*
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Re: Tython

Post by Beorht » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:30 pm

The ancient knowledge thing also applies to Ossus, for the record. Though you do have a point about bringing in TOR people, Halomek's point about the war is probably more important to the current state of affairs. We could make it a Jedi goal or watchword - Reclaim Tython! That would give the Jedi some actual, you know, incentive to be involved in this war. It would give the Jedi some motivation and function, which they've lacked for a long, long time. Just getting it because we want it is pointless and unsatisfying.

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Re: Tython

Post by Nichalus » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:31 pm

Just as a fore-warning. I am watching this thread closely, due to past issues with this subject...

I will NOT be handing out pre-warnings, your pre-warning is this post.

Keep this conversation/discussion civil...
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Re: Tython

Post by Shaggy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:32 pm

Mirrodin2nd wrote: Shaggy:

Whether or not you want to get into it, it's still there and that's how things work. *Shrug*
That has already been proven that if the collective doesn't like it, it can be overturned. But I am not getting into that right now
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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:39 pm

Halomek wrote:I don't want to get into too many details right now, but Kalja's business on Tython will only be tangentially related to the Jedi Order. It doesn't make much sense for Tython to revert to Jedi control at the moment for a number of reasons, but the biggest would probably have to be that the Empire and NR will be resuming hostilities with each other in the near future. Now that the Jedi are once again affiliated with the NR, the Empire isn't going to allow them to have a temple inside their borders since it essentially constitutes an enemy base.
Thank you for saying it.

and Shaggy, Beohrt said it best.

I put this before the forums, before alot of people just like I did with Yoda and Obi-Wan, this shouldn't even be allowed to be an issue right now.

The Jedi shouldn't even be focused on "Hey, where is Tython! Let's go find it!" Considering it's in Deep Core near Byss, Coruscant and other relatively and might I say heavily fortified "green" zones if you will of Imperial nature.

*sighs* I am not going to be drawn into a discussion. It's not being converted into a Jedi world. Period. I'm not discussing it. Voting, or changing my stories or going to ask people change plots of their own to satisfy that notion which realistically has zero grounds for legitimacy.

If it is suggested.
That has already been proven that if the collective doesn't like it, it can be overturned. But I am not getting into that right now
Now, or in the future.

Korriban was something different. It was destroyed. No one has said people cannot come to Tython in the future, it just will not belong to the Jedi Order, period.

The Grand Temple is in shambles, there is limited if anything left for gain on the planet. The Guardians (and Cadden's post said this) have been in solitude for over a thousand years.

*points to the quote* That would be like me saying, I want Coruscant back cause the New Republic should have it.

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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:45 pm

There is no ancient knowledge, everything was looted or evacuated when Tython was left a thousand years prior.

The release of SWTOR is really irrelevant considering the fact that there are dozens of planets beyond Tython. I did this well before SWTOR was really like a "hype" Well, that isn't true but before it become a fascination..Ok, can't say that either. EDIT - When I say that, I mean, people were excited when it was a rumor. :P

It was planned prior to anyone knowing much about Tython. *shrugs* That is best said.

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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Tython, what happened? It is the ancestral home of the Jedi I believe and I was wondering why it is not in their hands. Also what are the major planets that the Jedi control?
Technically, it's also the birthplace of the Dark Side as well. Reference, the Force Wars around 25,793 BBY.

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Re: Tython

Post by Beorht » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:50 pm

Oh snap.

Yeah, I know, I'm not helping...

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Re: Tython

Post by Pryde » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:55 pm

Ghost you were having issues with Halcyon over things Halcyon has no authority to control. Whatever the issue was with Tython it was never brought before the Council. We've had an agreement that anything major with the Jedi should go through the Council. Since it hasn't I can only assume Halcyon was overstepping his grounds... Again.
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Re: Tython

Post by Shaggy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:56 pm

yes we know they both started there but as the sith went to korriban the jedi stayed on tython. :rolleyes:
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Re: Tython

Post by Mir » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Pryde2000 wrote:Ghost you were having issues with Halcyon over things Halcyon has no authority to control. Whatever the issue was with Tython it was never brought before the Council. We've had an agreement that anything major with the Jedi should go through the Council. Since it hasn't I can only assume Halcyon was overstepping his grounds... Again.
Yeah but one person was both Jedi FC and Grandmaster so it's not like there was anything put in place to stop him from doing that.

Edit: Especially when Jedi FC is supposed to coordinate. It's not the job of the people on the Council to coordinate OOC, that's the point of the FC.
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Re: Tython

Post by Red Dragon » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:03 pm

The Lost City of the Jedi on Yavin 4 has ancient knowledge. Its library has stuff so old its written on PAPER SCROLLS. Hence why I am going to bring it into play.

On another note... about Tython... The Temple may be looted and destroyed (Or what ever) but that can't be the only structure that housed jedi material. There could be hidden vaults some where. I mean its the planet where the force was first ... not discovered but researched. Story states "Mages" and the such went there enmass and shared knowledge and worked together to discover more about the force. Then the very first scisim in views happened and the Great force war happened. There when/were the Jedi was first started. Those who had different views from the Jedi and survived went into exile, found the Sith and weaved the Siths way of life into their views of the force, called them selves the Sith for the first time AND the hate for the Jedi started.

Its how all wars start. Different views, Jedi and Sith are two sides of the same coin. I still think it be cool to see a legitimate order where students can learn the light side, or dark side, with out the hate between the two and work together to bring balance AND justice to the force.

Actually that was another Force order i was thinking about creating at Yavin 4...
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Re: Tython

Post by Beorht » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:04 pm

Speaking of which...Grandmaster elections? Tangent tangent tangent...

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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:06 pm

Pryde2000 wrote:Ghost you were having issues with Halcyon over things Halcyon has no authority to control. Whatever the issue was with Tython it was never brought before the Council. We've had an agreement that anything major with the Jedi should go through the Council. Since it hasn't I can only assume Halcyon was overstepping his grounds... Again.
Pryde, I never said he controlled them much less did I seek permission from him in the first place. I did exactly as I was told to do.

None objected.

Why would Tython be brought before the Council? Is it my fault if people choose not to pay attention to what I post or request? The same could be said about the Stealth-X or Divinity, correct?

Now, in regards to my discussion with him about the Jedi Order and "ownership" of Tython. Yup, there was alot of disagreements. I refused to budge.

I held that right.

Logically speaking, why would the Jedi Order who will be loyal to the New Republic seek to open a Temple (which again this is beyond me I'm entertaining this) within enemy territory? Why would the Jedi Order even seek out a place they cannot get to? On a mass scale? Each individual person who is capable of finding it fly transports to the location?

Powerful individuals within the Force are able to locate the route to Tython. The ROUTE will NOT become stabilized. Should the Empire claim it? I'm all for it at this point considering the rules state, neutral planet, default to the closest canon government. Or something to that extent. *shrugs* The Jedi have nothing to gain from Tython. Why this is even of interest or I'm being lambasted for it is beyond me.

But I had a different approach, I have two other people who have major investments with characters and time into the "rediscovery" of Tython. Which I was in discussion with them about ownership and was working with them on it. Why can't things be left well enough alone?

Re-elect a New Grandmaster and Jedi Faction Coordinator. I shouldn't have to stop everything I am doing which I have involved people in and literally even just dragged Beorht into it the other day.

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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:08 pm

I honestly got Tython fair and square.

If the Jedi had Tython before this, then I would see the issue. They did not.

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Re: Tython

Post by VagueDurin » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:16 pm

No one is lambasting anyone for crimminies sake. This is just a discussion. You can dispense with the defensiveness and the drama already. Its hardly necessary.
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Re: Tython

Post by Cadden » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:21 pm

Yet there clearly was nothing leftover when the Jedi Order returned to the planet in 3,650 BBY, else they woulda picked that stuff up, the world being dedicated to the training of padawans in the Order and all. :raisedbrow:

I'm pretty sure Tython is more of a symbol to the Jedi than an actual place of any true worth or importance. Canon refuses to say otherwise. In the time when Belia Darzu AND Darth Bane had been to that world, there were no indicators of seeking of ancient knowledge or anything like that. And we all know how Sith love to pursue Jedi knowledge. Darzu even made Tython her own personal headquarters for twenty years. Twenty years. The Jedi frequently used but two sites during the Cold War. Two. Out of a potential of, what, ten? And you can't say they didn't know about the others, if they were still around and active. No, they knew about them, all right.

So, by 18 ABY? I really somehow doubt that any ancient knowledge would have survived the years. And any that would have, the Guardians of the Force would hold sole ownership over, given the logic of the passing of time with consistent holding of a single planet.

I really fail to see the fuss about the Jedi Order reclaiming Tython. What I'm seeing is, "They should get Tython. You know, just 'cause." I don't buy that. It's weak, at best. There's no real motivating factor for why the Jedi would want to go back there. It's deep in Imperial territory, and it's been considered abandoned for a thousand years. (I use "considered" due to the presence of the Guardians of the Force.) There's no logic in their return. Not now, at least, and probably not for a long, long time. Even if they did decide they wanted to go back... they still have to consider the Empire. Which now has the Imperial Knights... which means they could get to the planet if they were really determined to do so.

There's no logic, no strategy, nothing, involved in this. And the only reason why I can get away with the Guardians being there is because they were created with a very specific purpose, which leaves Tython still in the neutral zone as far as intergalactic politics are concerned.
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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:25 pm

Vague, you may think people don't have to get defensive, and that is your position.

I feel different because this involves my work. Dramatic? Perhaps a bit on the "theatrical" side, We shall dispense with them right away.

Either way, I feel I have a right to be defensive about a specific situation in which has been in the planning process and there are certain opinions I wish to express but I can't because they might come off as distasteful.

Or jabs at people.

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Re: Tython

Post by VagueDurin » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:31 pm

Having the right to be defensive does not make it any less counter productive. I fully undetstand your perspective. But when someone gets defensive it only derails the logic and productive activity of a thread and instead just Boggs things down.

That being said, what cadden just said holds mucho much merit.
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Re: Tython

Post by Ghost » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:31 pm

Maybe the way I said what Cadden said, didn't come across as such.

Meh.

I blame pain killers.

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