WoH New Rules Discussion

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WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Nichalus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:48 pm

I have created this thread for the sole purpose of the discussion of the new rules by all those involved.

This discussion will remain relatively clean, and keep on the subject at hand.

To those of you that Adam has stated that have some complaints about Mirrodin, this is the time to do so. Be respectful and state your complaint so that this issue can be discussed and sorted out.

These are the new rules as established by Halycon....
Halcyon508 wrote:I’ve been talking with people who have left the World of Heroes, or people who wanted to join but never did, to try and figure out what the problems are with the world of heroes forum. I’ve talked with two of our mods (independently) and come up with a new set of rule changes and rulings that all agreed on. I’ve already begun this by sending target letters to inactive RPers in order to remove lists of inactive players.

Lists:
No more Families or rogues galleries may be claimed. For now on all characters you are claiming must be spelled out plainly. If you have a family/ Rogues Gallery claimed you have a week to sort this out.

The Addition of NPCs:
NPCs will be added to give everyone a chance to RP characters. I have already put a thread up detailing this change.

Character Limit:
There is still no limit on how many characters you can claim, however there IS regulation. You are allowed to claim as many characters on your list you’ve RPed plus Fifty Percent. For example if you have RPed 10 copy characters you may claim 15 characters on your list. IF your list is already longer than your allotment you may not claim more characters or gain more characters through a trade until you’ve either reduced your list size or RPed more characters. All new players may claim up to 10 characters to start.

THE MAIN RULES WILL BE EDITED IN THE COMING WEEKS TO REFLECT THESE CHANGES

Cadden’s List:
The characters under the section labeled “Donate/Trade List” are to be removed from your list. You say it yourself that there isn’t any more plans for them so keeping them is just greedy.

The Batman Family:
Do to the number of complaints we are prepared to make a ruling. Mirrodin has had the Batman Family since 07. Since 07 no one has been allowed to RP in Gotham because of this. Batman hasn’t interacted with the rest of the forum in any meaningful way, and people have been denied a slew of characters from this. There has been no indication that Mirrodin wants to RP with other people and many people want to be part of the Batman Family, or at the very least RP in Gotham City. Because of this the characters will be changing hands and the current Batman thread moved to the Spiral of Worlds for Mirrodin to continue RPing. Currently no one can claim any of the Batmans Rogue Gallery or Family characters which I have listed below. To prevent a feeding frenzy if you want to RP Batman or a member of the Batman family you should PM me with the who and a reason why you would be a good candidate. The concept is to try and make it so the maximum amount of people can enjoy these characters in a linked and cooperative environment. I will give it two weeks to receive PMs about the characters before making final verdicts.

Current Characters in Protective Status:
Batman
Batgirl
Red Robin
Robin
Nightwing
Blackbat
Huntress
Batwoman
Spoiler

The Joker
Two Face
Penguin
Cat Woman
Bane
The Riddler
Hush
Killer Croc
Poison Ivy
Scarecrow
Hugo Strange
Black Mask
The Great White Shark
The Mad Hatter
Mr. Freeze
The Ventriloquist and Scarface
Man-Bat
Mister Zsasz
Firefly
Killer Moth
Harley Quinn
Clayface
Catman

The League of Assassins:
Ra’s al Ghul
The Sensei
Doctor Darrk
Lady Shiva
David Cain
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Balsa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:54 pm

It may facilitate the discussion if you copy/pasted the rules to your post, or provided a link to them. Just for ease of reference.

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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Nichalus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:59 pm

Balsa wrote:It may facilitate the discussion if you copy/pasted the rules to your post, or provided a link to them. Just for ease of reference.

Done. :mrgreen:
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:01 pm

If anyone has a problem with this the proper procedure is to contact the mods through PM and get a majority to over rule me. Two out of three mods both of who have RPed in the WoH before got copied in on the announcement before I made it. There is nothing to discuss.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Nichalus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:10 pm

Show me where it says that the WoH Coordinator has the right to change the rules?
Balsa wrote:Knowing that Halcyon is now the WoH Forum Coordinator, we've taken to clarify what his duties include. Sorry it took so long to get this up:
The World of Heroes (WoH) Coordinator primary responsibility is to assist in the running of the WoH forums, specifically the locking, sticky-ing, editing, and deleting of threads and posts within the WoH forums, with the intent of smoothing the forum's operation. In addition, the WoH Coordinator has the authority to settle disputes concerning WoH matters, while the Moderators reserve the right to overrule any decisions. These privileges are limited only to the WoH forums. The WoH Coordinator does not have the ability to issue formal warnings or otherwise perform moderating duties, even within the confines of the WoH forums.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:22 pm

I'm resolving disputes. Disputes over the rules, disputes over claiming characters, disputes which caused people to quit in the past, and complaints that I have been dealing with for years. In addition I sent this through the two mods knowledgeable with the world of heroes and they approved before I posted.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Nichalus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:28 pm

And I am using the above clause to 'overule' this resolution so that this issue may be discussed openly by the people that are involved so that there is no 'he said/she said' situation involved. If there is a dispute, of which there obviously is, then it will be discussed by ALL members involved.

I will remind you Adam...you are a COORDINATOR of the WOH, not a MODERATOR of these forums.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Balsa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:54 pm

Just wanted to say, Thanks Nich for copying the disputed rules into your original post.

(Hope my request didn't sound like a demand. :P )

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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Pryde » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:29 pm

For the record I did offer my support for this in as far as the claiming of super hero families go. As far as I am aware some of the families people have claimed contain almost a hundred characters or more and to me that seemed extremely excessive. I agreed with Halcyon that changes should be made, maybe not these exact changes and definitely not in the way they were handled. If anyone knows best what happens when you force things on people it's the moderators. Now, while we're on the subject, let's hammer out some rules in a civil fashion and with tiny hammers, we don't want anyone to get hurt, of course. We'll use Halcyon's proposal as a basis and try to piece together something we can all agree on.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:37 pm

Pryde2000 wrote:For the record I did offer my support for this in as far as the claiming of super hero families go.
But did you offer support for the part concerning the Batman Family and Batman Rogues Gallery?
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Nichalus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:38 pm

Balsa wrote:Just wanted to say, Thanks Nich for copying the disputed rules into your original post.

(Hope my request didn't sound like a demand. :P )
No Balsa, I did not take it as such. I meant to do so, but got sidetracked on PMs. :mrgreen: You know us 'old' people are easily distracted.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Pryde » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:42 pm

Mirrodin2nd wrote:
Pryde2000 wrote:For the record I did offer my support for this in as far as the claiming of super hero families go.
But did you offer support for the part concerning the Batman Family and Batman Rogues Gallery?
Not as such, check your PMs.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:48 pm

Just did, appreciate the response.

So now it's not 2 Mods who got "copied in on the announcement".

I eagerly await Vague's response.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:53 pm

Pryde2000 wrote: When I talked to you on the phone I didn't think you were going to just take the Batman family from him, I thought we talked about giving him a chance to abide by the rules and make the Batman family more accessible to other players and only if he had refused do we suggest he move to the Spiral of Worlds.
Yes he did approve it. He just didn't realize what he was approving when we talked. And I'll accept that. he wanted me to issue an Ultimatum.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:57 pm

Pryde's PMs to me say that in the proposal you sent him there was nothing about the Batman Family. I'm not really seeing how he approved taking something away from me unilaterally without realizing what he was reading.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:58 pm

Mirrodin2nd wrote:Pryde's PMs to me say that in the proposal you sent him there was nothing about the Batman Family. I'm not really seeing how he approved taking something away from me unilaterally without realizing what he was reading.
That isn't what he JUST said to me in a PM. He wanted an Ultimatum issued and I thought he wanted well what I did. I took what he said ass backwards when we talked.

I still have the Txts I sent vague and his response though. The only think he had a problem with was the RPed characters +50% because it would be hard to enforce and make for lackluster RPing.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:05 pm

Well definitely I want a post from Vague stating that he was in agreement with taking away the Batman Family and Batman Rogues Gallery from me.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by RCCrow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:10 pm

Vague needs to come on and say so. No texts, no he said/ she said. Vague needs to say it to everyone on this conversation. We need some serious transparency on this right now. This back room, he said, she said stuff needs to end. Obviously people took things the wrong way. As it stands Pryde is saying he did not approve of the way this was handled. So I think we need to remove to rule right now, everything reverts to Mir and then we solve it from there. Blindsiding someone like this is not okay and is not how something like this needs to work.

I still stand by the fact that if we abolish the Batman Family, then all Families need to go, INCLUDING the Spider-Man family. I know Mir is willing to work with people who are serious about RPing Batman characters. Going after one person is showing that there is a vendetta against that person.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:15 pm

Mirrodin2nd wrote:Well definitely I want a post from Vague stating that he was in agreement with taking away the Batman Family and Batman Rogues Gallery from me.
he said "Well I like most if it I guess... the 50% seems a little iffy. Not sure of a way around itor a better idea but enforcement will be a bitch and it'll create some lackluster posting in an effort to beat it." so out of what I sent him, which I checked DEF. had the batman shit in it, he had a problem with the 50% rule. And I got the txts on my phone right now. I don't know how to make it so I can show you without calling the phone company but that's the conversation we had.

And ALL The families ARE gone. Everyone has a week to claim things formally in the family that was claimed. Hell even Batman the decision doesn't take effect for two weeks where Mir just like anybody else can make a PM why he should have the characters/keep the characters. It's just breaking up the family and abolishing the rule. ALL the FAMILIES ARE GONE and must be claimed individually.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Pryde » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:17 pm

I don't do ultimatum's, ultimatums have a nasty way of getting me into trouble around here. Besides, as we're all so fond of saying when it suits us this is a consent-based board. However, my mouth does tend to speak faster than my brain can process and I was in fact playing TOR when we talked and am easily distracted. Meaning I wasn't really paying much attention to the direction our conversation was taking so I'll admit that I'm not 100% without fault either and I apologize.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:18 pm

Halcyon508 wrote:
Mirrodin2nd wrote:Well definitely I want a post from Vague stating that he was in agreement with taking away the Batman Family and Batman Rogues Gallery from me.
he said "Well I like most if it I guess... the 50% seems a little iffy. Not sure of a way around itor a better idea but enforcement will be a bitch and it'll create some lackluster posting in an effort to beat it." so out of what I sent him, which I checked DEF. had the batman shit in it, he had a problem with the 50% rule. And I got the txts on my phone right now. I don't know how to make it so I can show you without calling the phone company but that's the conversation we had.

And ALL The families ARE gone. Everyone has a week to claim things formally in the family that was claimed. Hell even Batman the decision doesn't take effect for two weeks where Mir just like anybody else can make a PM why he should have the characters/keep the characters. It's just breaking up the family and abolishing the rule. ALL the FAMILIES ARE GONE and must be claimed individually.
Then it won't be that big of an issue to have him post saying as such, and acknowledge that he knew about what you were planning on doing with the Batman Family/Rogues Gallery. And I'm not talking about just taking it away, I mean taking it away and not talking to me about it beforehand.

And apparently Pryde did not tell you to issue an ultimatum.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:25 pm

Umm that isn't what he said. He said he didn't mean it that way and that he's partially at fault because he wasn't paying attention to the conversation. He doesn't do Ultimatums yet it was his idea to "well get him to take it to the Spiral of Worlds" That's what I based the entire thing off of.

While we're on the subject (because I'm now pretty sure this is getting overruled so it doesn't matter and isn't worth the time anymore) besides this one issue is there any other issues with the new set of rules?
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by RCCrow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:29 pm

What other rules are we talking about?
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:34 pm

Well I don't know about other people, but I kind of care about the outcome of this, even if it's getting overruled. Because I'm seeing a fairly large issue that this whole thing has raised.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:43 pm

RCCrow wrote:What other rules are we talking about?
The rules in the thread where with the batman thing.

No more claiming Families/rogues galleries. People with Families have a week to claim individuals they will want.

NPCs, There is now a list of NPCs to be RPed by everyone.

Caddens Characters. Cadden is losing a bunch of stuff as well..

Claim Limits. You can now claim your characters you've RPed +50% so if you've RPed 10 characters you can claim 15.

I think that's all of them in a nutshell but Nich has them quoted in the first post.

And sorry Mir I don't mean that I don't care about the outcome. I do. I just don't care to discuss it. Because frankly I think we both know what ways it's going and talking about it more won't do anything but cause more trouble right now. Some things were taken out of context and I worked on an assumption that wasn't true. Now it's up to the mods to decide. Do you care to comment on the rest of the rules and such?
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:46 pm

Halcyon508 wrote:
RCCrow wrote:What other rules are we talking about?
No more claiming Families/rogues galleries. People with Families have a week to claim individuals they will want.
So if I have to go to you to claim the list of people I want, I would assume then that you have to okay it. Meaning you can decide whether it's fair or not. Which means that you decide who on the family or rogues gallery I can have. Because otherwise I just copy and paste and it's the same exact thing as the family/rogues gallery that we have now.

Which brings me to an interesting question:

Who do you PM for the Spider-Man Family and the Spider-Man Rogues Gallery?
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by RCCrow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:49 pm

So Adam who do you have to PM for the Spider-Man family? You could reclaim all of them without any checks or balances. Personally I think we need to drop this whole family thing right now. There should be a vote with the people in WoH because that's who this effects the most. This whole this is silly beyond all belief. The fact that this was done with no real discussion should make it invalid till further notice. It was an abuse of power. End of story.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mandalore_The_Uniter » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:52 pm

I like the NPC Rule, that would be fun.

The Spider-Man Villans, the rouges gallery of the 2nd most protected family on this bourd, are going to be NPC'd...I was going to do the same thing with the Static Shock Villans....

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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Beorht » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:52 pm

*ducks in*

I like the NPC rules and list. I like having go-to villains that threaten everyone. I think that's sick.

And I'm staying the HELL out of the rest of this.

*ducks out*

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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:53 pm

Mirrodin2nd wrote:
Halcyon508 wrote:
RCCrow wrote:What other rules are we talking about?
No more claiming Families/rogues galleries. People with Families have a week to claim individuals they will want.
So if I have to go to you to claim the list of people I want, I would assume then that you have to okay it. Meaning you can decide whether it's fair or not. Which means that you decide who on the family or rogues gallery I can have. Because otherwise I just copy and paste and it's the same exact thing as the family/rogues gallery that we have now.

Which brings me to an interesting question:

Who do you PM for the Spider-Man Family and the Spider-Man Rogues Gallery?

Umm no actually I don't have to okay it. It's amnesty for Families/rogues galleries until the rule takes effect. Also almost all of my Spider-Man Villains will become NPCs after the Initial encounter, and some before. Goblin is the only one that won't and I'm undecided on Kingpin.

Edit: For Clarification. All you have to do to claim characters in the family is go into the thread for claiming characters in the next week and say what you want to claim. That way is there is family overlap people with families know and can comment.
Last edited by Halcyon508 on Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:54 pm

Yes, but he gets to determine the majority of everything about them. Personality, appearance, character traits, backstory.

And he also gets to determine whether or not someone is able to keep the people from their Rogues Gallery.

Interestingly enough, Adam has had a lot of his characters on an NPC List for a very long time. How many people have RPed with them? How many of those people are new to WoH? So does that show ANY actual ability to "open up" the WoH as he says it will?
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:56 pm

Halcyon508 wrote:Umm no actually I don't have to okay it. It's amnesty for Families/rogues galleries until the rule takes effect. Also almost all of my Spider-Man Villains will become NPCs after the Initial encounter. Goblin is the only one that won't and I'm undecided on Kingpin.
So if you don't have to okay who someone is allowed to keep, WHY ABOLISH IT IN THE FIRST PLACE? Because everyone keeps everyone they already have and NOTHING CHANGES.

Your change in rules is ridiculously pointless and furthermore it adds more confusion.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:00 pm

In regards to your Edit for Clarification, then again wouldn't it have been smarter to talk to the people who have Rogues Galleries that overlap, in private and get them talking and tell them that they need to get together to figure something out? Because realistically from what I'm seeing, the only people this affects is:

Me with the Daredevil Rogues Gallery

and

You with the Spiderman Rogues Gallery

But what you want to do is create literally giant lists, by spreading everything out, instead of having it be smaller, condensed and easy to read.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Halcyon508 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:01 pm

Mirrodin2nd wrote:Yes, but he gets to determine the majority of everything about them. Personality, appearance, character traits, backstory.

And he also gets to determine whether or not someone is able to keep the people from their Rogues Gallery.

Interestingly enough, Adam has had a lot of his characters on an NPC List for a very long time. How many people have RPed with them? How many of those people are new to WoH? So does that show ANY actual ability to "open up" the WoH as he says it will?
It doesn't when it's part of YOUR list. But if you hold NO Ownership over them they will. That's the theory and its worked on other boards. Thus the need for another list. Also the NPCs were limited before currently there is no limit to them, now the only regulation is for that to. As for the Editorial list I'll take myself off and put you on if that makes you feel better. I don't care about writing it for everyone I'm the only name on there right now because the thing just went up. Right now there are no requirements except the willingness to do Wiki Work to be on the Editorial team. I don't really WANT to do wiki work.

And we're changing the Rule because of Overlap in Family and Rogues Galleries. Because some Rogues Galleries and some Families don't have Wiki's that say exactly who is in them. Who is a Flash Villian? I looked on one site and some of the Villians overlapped with Superman Villains who Cazzik has. This is even more apparent in Marvel. That's why I claimed Kingpin seperate from family and rogues gallery. And because with the new rules on claiming it helps to know exactly how many characters a person has. So it won't add confusion later. It adds confusion now while families need to be claimed by individual characters.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:06 pm

Halcyon508 wrote:
Mirrodin2nd wrote:Yes, but he gets to determine the majority of everything about them. Personality, appearance, character traits, backstory.

And he also gets to determine whether or not someone is able to keep the people from their Rogues Gallery.

Interestingly enough, Adam has had a lot of his characters on an NPC List for a very long time. How many people have RPed with them? How many of those people are new to WoH? So does that show ANY actual ability to "open up" the WoH as he says it will?
It doesn't when it's part of YOUR list. But if you hold NO Ownership over them they will. That's the theory and its worked on other boards. Thus the need for another list. Also the NPCs were limited before currently there is no limit to them, now the only regulation is for that to. As for the Editorial list I'll take myself off and put you on if that makes you feel better. I don't care about writing it for everyone I'm the only name on there right now because the thing just went up. Right now there are no requirements except the willingness to do Wiki Work to be on the Editorial team. I don't really WANT to do wiki work.

And we're changing the Rule because of Overlap in Family and Rogues Galleries. Because some Rogues Galleries and some Families don't have Wiki's that say exactly who is in them. Who is a Flash Villian? I looked on one site and some of the Villians overlapped with Superman Villains who Cazzik has. This is even more apparent in Marvel. That's why I claimed Kingpin seperate from family and rogues gallery. And because with the new rules on claiming it helps to know exactly how many characters a person has. So it won't add confusion later. It adds confusion now while families need to be claimed by individual characters.
Except now either a group of people OR the original owner creates the backstory and what not. So group of people that can now disagree and run into problems OR the original owner who does something that other people don't like or don't feel is "like the character".

Because that really seems like it's going to solve problems and create more cohesion and less tension.

In regards to the Flash/Superman situation, I'm fairly positive that it probably has to do with the big villains that had to do with Justice League stuff. And even then that's still two situations. Which could have been discussed and hammered out without this public BS and doing away with it entirely. And you're the one who's argued the most out of anyone I know about who exactly belongs to the Spiderman Rogues Gallery so that other people can't have them. I've had that argument with you a number of times about villains.
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Archangel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:55 am

Hunh.

Well, this would suck.

Because Mir, RCCrow, and peayitforward would leave, not because I have an opinion on the rules. I mean, they sound like a douchebag is being dumped out on Mir's head, but that could be because I haven't read any of the complaints about RPing in Gotham City or with members of the Batman... group... of characters...

You guys in the WoH have weird terms, by the way.

Or are those comic books terms?

I knew someday I'd regret not spending thousands of dollars on neat stories with cool pictures.

Anyway. It'd be nice to hear from all the people who complained about Mir. Not for, you know, a witch hunt, but so that their problems can be dealt with civilly and resolved simply, without telling Mir to go play in the corner by himself.

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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Ghost » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:06 am

I have an issue with Mir being stripped of the whole Batman stuff cause it f$cks, (Yes warn me) with my WoH stuff dramatically and I have quite a few posts and am working on Batman stuff with him. I just had an irl Vacation for the first time in my adult life. For those whom are in the military, and never had one, you know what I mean. Or rather were in the military, whatever.

I requested when this is resolved, Dr. Harleen Frances Quinzel be introduced through discussion with Mir. That is pending. And has a big storyline which can involve alot of people.

I requested specific villains from that category be involved with Rachel Matthews, again being worked in but pending cause of this stupidity.

Did I mention that Batman(Isaiah Muir) and Shadowblade(Allyson Parks) are close friends? Oh right, that would mean a re-write of history for my character. I don't think that is fair. I'm not asking anyone to give any families up. I think we should leave this alone period, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. It never was broke and if people were complaining why complain to Adam? Why not the Mods?

I don't think that is right in the first place, handle it at the lowest level to some degree but if it's that big of an issue to cause this big of a drama fest, then Moderators should have been notified. All of them.

I think this should be shot down and overruled. Adam keeps his crap, Mir keeps his crap and has been easy to negotiate with(atleast with me) and everyone goes about their merry f'ing way.

This is just stupid.

EDIT - And to be honest, no offense to Adam, but the Coordinator position should be removed to eliminate any further issues such as this. Not cause of him but because of the hierarchy seems to be misguided? Or rather misconstrued?

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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Mir » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:31 am

Archangel wrote:It'd be nice to hear from all the people who complained about Mir. Not for, you know, a witch hunt, but so that their problems can be dealt with civilly and resolved simply, without telling Mir to go play in the corner by himself.
That's what I'm still waiting for.

So far, the only person with complaints about me is Adam, not the faceless throng of Exodus RPers. Because of this, I've received two things that could be construed as "complaints" and the best part is that they're not about me personally, they're about the overall WoH appearing insular. Incidentally, making it open to new people and making it more popular should be the job of the WoH Coordinator, if it isn't already. That's what I thought was the purpose of the job from the get go, in addition to handling disputes.

What I find funny about this is that while I had the Wonder Woman family (I don't anymore, I dropped the claim), Cazzik had Wonder Girl. I have the Flash Family and this whole time, Haruman has had Kid Flash, he just hasn't begun anything. He also has a Flash Villain, Captain Cold. I've already explained that Cazzik has Red Hood and Batwing from the Batman family, the first one can be considered either Family or Rogues Gallery. Kit Fitsu has two characters based off of two of the most major Batman villains ever, Joker and Two Face. He started those with my approval and my assistance and I jumped in to the thread with him to help him, with the actual Joker. Then there's Ghost's two characters, one of whom has a friendship with Batman in his civilian self and another who we were working on things for down the road.

Already right there, you have 4 of the WoH posters. So who's got the complaints? Seriously? Because if they're not there, then this has gone beyond simple rule changes and has now shifted into abuse of power and actions that do not fit someone who should be the WoH Coordinator. Pryde already explained that he wasn't sure of what he was reading or that his words were taken out of context or some combination thereof. And the only two people who have come to me now with "complaints" have nothing to do with me personally OR the Batman Family/Rogues Gallery.


On the Subject of NPCs:

NPCing people is an interesting idea. However, I don't feel as though the decision of who is an NPC should belong with the coordinator. It rests with the person who has that claim. If they want to make that person an NPC then awesome, but it should be their choice and their prerogative. We don't require people's "major" characters in the MBT to be NPC's. You can NPC them for a paragraph or some dialogue or a bit of small action, but you don't get to write full thread with Kalja Leidias the same way that Pryde can't just write full threads with Akain, and I don't get to write full threads with Darth Sirena. I don't believe that anyone should in any way be "forced" to make any of their characters NPCs. Furthermore, the idea behind editorial groups is a "good" one, but then it creates so much more arguing and discussion and all it does, to me, is create more space for bad blood or personal issues to be created.

On the subject of abolishing Families/Rogues Galleries:

Since up until a week or so ago, this only affected two people on a small scale (Halcyon and Myself through the Spiderman and Daredevil RG's respectively), I'm not sure I see the virtue in this anymore. Granted, now the situation has changed slightly, because there's a Me and Cazzik issue with Flash and Superman or Superman and Batman. But the thing is that this doesn't mean that we should just abolish Families/Rogue Galleries altogether. I'm fairly certain that those two people, and myself, are fully capable of talking it out reasonably, and furthermore, I'm certain that anyone currently in the WoH and on the boards as a whole if they should join the WoH is capable of doing so as well. We're all adults even if sometimes we all act like kids. To me, all this does is increase the length of lists.

Interestingly enough, one of the biggest problems for new people is list length and the perceived futility of joining. So do we really want longer lists?
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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Ghost » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:46 am

I just don't see the point in these changes at all, period.

At all. Nothing is or appears to be broken.

EDIT - Once this is all fixed. I claim http://marvel.wikia.com/Ghost_%28Earth-616%29

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Re: WoH New Rules Discussion

Post by Cadden » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:26 am

The whole point of this revision process is the fact that 10% of the people control 90% of the characters.

And then, for the most part, keep them in their own private little circles.

It was one of the driving forces that caused Xan to leave the boards (it was THE driving force that had him work in his own little circle to begin with), and it's one of the driving forces that has decreased my motivation on a consistent level over the past few years.

But the biggest driving factor is that we have people with hundreds of characters that they aren't willing to let go of, or allow others to RP, which in turn deters people from wanting to join up, or RP actively in my case. Granted, of all the characters, the only other one that I want, Mir is well aware of. But, as it stands, a combination of SWTOR and the current goingons of WoH keep me from really wanting post much, if at all, around here. I have stories, I have ideas, but when I decide it's time to put the concept to paper, I kinda just look at everything and go, "Wtf is the point?"

Myself, I have just over one dozen claimed characters. Do I only RP one? Yes. Would I RP more? Yes, if circumstances granted me more motivation to do so. I've told Halc in private, before he made that rules list, that he was more than welcome to get rid of my "Donate/Trade List." The only reason why I put "Trade" in that list's title was to deter people who already have ridiculous lists to up and snatch the chars within it. I don't care if the list is done away with or not. And yes, I agree that a lot of the ridiculously long lists need to be done away with, as well. I find it funny that there's talk of doing what we can to improve upon WoH, but the main problem that keeps people from joining is found in the lists themselves, something that the same people who are advocating the aforementioned change are unwilling to budge on. Me? With my pitiful claims list? Even if I were asked to get rid of some characters, I'd be very persistent about it, because every single one of my characters are tied together in some way, shape or form. With the very possible exception of Mandarin, Elektra, and my (semi-)unique character "Bogeyman." Of those three, Bogeyman is the only one I no longer have plans for.

But hey... since when was it important that people invested actively in others' ideas and stories? I know that it's been going on to a smaller extent, but besides one, maybe two, specific people (I'm not naming them... you know who you are), I've either been shot down or flat-out ignored whenever I talk to someone about interaction between a character or two from our lists. And never has it been something that warrants such a response. It's always been stuff like, "Hey, I got this character, I think it'd be cool if he were put into a story about your character over there, give me a shout if you're interested and we can figure something out." Or something like that.

And people wonder why I don't post much on WoH. I've done my fair share of secluded RPing on the Exodus in the past. And, believe me, it's a recipe for failure of motivation. For me, though, that seclusion was my own preferences, for reasons that neither belong here nor need to be brought up again anyway. Those that don't know, ask someone who does. Now, here on WoH, it's because nobody else cares about anything outside their own circle. Seriously, is it truly offensive if someone wants to bring one of their own claims into your story universe? Then why are you here, roleplaying, interacting with others?

Or maybe I'm just so wrong and I'm the only one who feels that way. If that's the case, then congratulations for alienating someone.

That's my piece. Take it or leave it, I don't care.
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